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Post by garygraham on Jun 22, 2021 4:31:10 GMT
It sounds as if the master tapes of the Channel 4 series "Out On Tuesday" and "Out" are at best missing and at worst gone: lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/06/caroline-spry-the-woman-who-put-gays-on-tv/"Though master tapes of the programmes have been hard to find, she now has copies of many of the Out and Out on Tuesday programmes, digitised from off-air VHS tapes" The BFI will have VHS of all I guess. But VHS isn't broadcast quality. I wonder how many other Channel 4 programmes from the first 20 years are in a similiar position but we just don't know yet? Made by independent production companies, in some cases the edited master tapes may have ended up in boxes in someone's house.
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Post by Peter Stirling on Jun 22, 2021 8:24:14 GMT
You confirmed something which I thought would be a problem with CH4 material.
In the early years CH4 only had 1 inch machines and everything had to arrive on that, this was a rather iffy format that probably lasted a decade or so.
There are perhaps loads of single plays, experimental etc that nobody knows where they are now or the 1 inch tapes are a bit wobbly now.
Tim Hunkin's much loved "The Secret Life on Machines" is one example where I believe to put it on You Tube they had no idea where the film masters were and put what they had on there.
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Post by Mark Tinkler on Jun 22, 2021 9:41:01 GMT
Speaking as someone who worked at C4 in the 1980s - yes, it was all 1"...
But in 2005-6, I was making a Nat King Cole doc for BBC and HBO and was speaking to the owner of the Nat King Cole show and discovered she didn't have many shows. I remembered that C4 had shown them when I was working there and so contacted C4 then to found out that they were clearing out their old tapes of programmes they didn't have the rights for, offering them back to the makers where possible. But I got the PAL C4 1" tapes sent out to New York for this person, but what they did with the rest of them, I don't know.
(I also found the very 1st NKC show which had been missing for years, but that's a different story)
So it was around 2005/6 when C4 did their spring cleaning...
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jun 22, 2021 11:58:55 GMT
Can I ask a half-related question at this point? Many years ago, there was a half-story, half-rumour that C4 used to have some programs how TV shows were made, including one that used Blackadder II. Does that ring any bells?
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Post by Richard Marple on Jun 22, 2021 20:34:29 GMT
You confirmed something which I thought would be a problem with CH4 material. In the early years CH4 only had 1 inch machines and everything had to arrive on that, this was a rather iffy format that probably lasted a decade or so. There are perhaps loads of single plays, experimental etc that nobody knows where they are now or the 1 inch tapes are a bit wobbly now. Tim Hunkin's much loved "The Secret Life on Machines" is one example where I believe to put it on You Tube they had no idea where the film masters were and put what they had on there. I think the original film masters The Secret Life on Machines have been tracked down, judging by the quality of the recent uploads.
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Post by garygraham on Jun 22, 2021 21:24:07 GMT
Speaking as someone who worked at C4 in the 1980s - yes, it was all 1"... But in 2005-6, I was making a Nat King Cole doc for BBC and HBO and was speaking to the owner of the Nat King Cole show and discovered she didn't have many shows. I remembered that C4 had shown them when I was working there and so contacted C4 then to found out that they were clearing out their old tapes of programmes they didn't have the rights for, offering them back to the makers where possible. But I got the PAL C4 1" tapes sent out to New York for this person, but what they did with the rest of them, I don't know. (I also found the very 1st NKC show which had been missing for years, but that's a different story) So it was around 2005/6 when C4 did their spring cleaning... Did you get any sense of why the makers didn't have shows that had been licensed by Channel 4 just 15 years previously? The Guardian shows the broadcasts as being in 1990. It's worrying. As we speak, accountants are probably calling for shelves to be cleared of unprofitable old tapes and film cans. Companies are taken over by giant corporations that may not want to bothered with material that makes even a small amount.
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Post by Peter Stirling on Jun 22, 2021 21:55:42 GMT
It's worrying. As we speak, accountants are probably calling for shelves to be cleared of unprofitable old tapes and film cans. Companies are taken over by giant corporations that may not want to bothered with material that makes even a small amount. Rumours are that CH4 is about to be sold off into private hands.
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Post by garygraham on Jun 22, 2021 23:35:46 GMT
It's worrying. As we speak, accountants are probably calling for shelves to be cleared of unprofitable old tapes and film cans. Companies are taken over by giant corporations that may not want to bothered with material that makes even a small amount. Rumours are that CH4 is about to be sold off into private hands. That idea has been considered many times before. It has no library and would only bring quite a small one off payment. It could impact negatively on independent production companies. I would rather see Channel 4's original remit enforced and Amazon, Netflix and Google taxed to fund it
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Post by Mark Tinkler on Jun 23, 2021 9:15:20 GMT
Did you get any sense of why the makers didn't have shows that had been licensed by Channel 4 just 15 years previously? The Guardian shows the broadcasts as being in 1990. It's worrying. As we speak, accountants are probably calling for shelves to be cleared of unprofitable old tapes and film cans. Companies are taken over by giant corporations that may not want to bothered with material that makes even a small amount. I think that in the interim, different owners had taken over for the Nat King Cole Show, and the previous owners had been somewhat remiss in their handover details... And it's not necessarily accountants! People just want to make money but might have only limited experience in the industry. Things like that often happen - a new organisation takes over an archive and 'prunes' things down. Previous owners of ITC have done it, even happens with the American majors sadly.
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jun 24, 2021 12:56:46 GMT
You confirmed something which I thought would be a problem with CH4 material. In the early years CH4 only had 1 inch machines and everything had to arrive on that, this was a rather iffy format that probably lasted a decade or so. There are perhaps loads of single plays, experimental etc that nobody knows where they are now or the 1 inch tapes are a bit wobbly now. Tim Hunkin's much loved "The Secret Life on Machines" is one example where I believe to put it on You Tube they had no idea where the film masters were and put what they had on there. I think the original film masters The Secret Life on Machines have been tracked down, judging by the quality of the recent uploads. Oh thank heavens for that!
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Post by richardwoods on Jun 24, 2021 19:10:45 GMT
Couldn’t agree more. Great series!
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RWels
Member
Posts: 2,854
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Post by RWels on Jun 25, 2021 13:37:15 GMT
You confirmed something which I thought would be a problem with CH4 material. In the early years CH4 only had 1 inch machines and everything had to arrive on that, this was a rather iffy format that probably lasted a decade or so. There are perhaps loads of single plays, experimental etc that nobody knows where they are now or the 1 inch tapes are a bit wobbly now. Tim Hunkin's much loved "The Secret Life on Machines" is one example where I believe to put it on You Tube they had no idea where the film masters were and put what they had on there. I think the original film masters The Secret Life on Machines have been tracked down, judging by the quality of the recent uploads. Not quite:
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Post by Richard Marple on Jun 25, 2021 20:59:04 GMT
OK I see, I did notice Tim Hunkin has mentioned on his site that the recent uploads have been cleaned up.
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Post by garygraham on Jun 26, 2021 2:43:05 GMT
What a shame. That's way below what could be obtained these days from the negatives or even a film print! Looking at the videos online they are obviously a 1990s 16mm print. I wonder where the negatives and prints are? I'm sure film labs charge to store them. So when small independent production companies close the cans are liable to end up in a bedroom or shed. Didn't Oliver Postgate have cans stored in his workshop?
Perhaps the BFI should be doing more to track down negatives or important series?
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