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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Aug 21, 2022 5:23:30 GMT
It's just sheer fandom hysteria Well, yeah... And the S4 blu-ray boxset will have The Underwater Menace exactly the same as the original DVD release?Can't wait...
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Post by emjayf on Aug 21, 2022 12:06:53 GMT
Dr Who as soap.I'm frustrated by the absence of animation for The Crusade.BBC studios employ creatives who can produce umpteen new documentaries and special features but if the main feature is scrimped upon then what is the point of the release?It's just sheer fandom hysteria which leaves me feeling short-changed! And they produce those new documentaries and features at a fraction of the amount that the animation would cost. Yes I adore the documentaries and these new trailers are always such a joy to watch!! I was so excited when I saw this release was coming out! Finally a black and white boxset! It looks amazingly good! Be interesting to see the improvements they can make to the episodes now. It must take a lot of hard work. For The Crusade: No animation? Well that is fine by me as I am happy with a high quality telesnap recon - I have been impressed with the recons on the recent animation sets. We have only had unofficial recons - Loose Cannon always did a terrific job but imagine newly scanned higher quality images for a new version? I look forward to it! Hope they have a making of for it! Re. The Lion. can anything more be done with that? We all know the original print is no longer available so they can't rescan that. Did they do a high quality transfer so it doesn't matter that they have access to the original? Thanks all! Already pre-ordered! MJ
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Aug 21, 2022 20:54:19 GMT
What is the relationship between BBC Studios and Big Finish Creative?Why does BFC produce superb stand-alone animated releases of missing stories but isn't commissioned to produce animations for the blu-ray boxsets?
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Post by timmunton on Aug 21, 2022 21:01:34 GMT
Is The Lion no longer available to be re-scanned for the Season 2 Collection set? (as emjayf says 2 comments before my present comment now).
I wasn't aware of this - & very much hope it's not the case, as that would be a real shame.
Can anyone please clarify?
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Post by Richard Bignell on Aug 21, 2022 21:16:57 GMT
What is the relationship between BBC Studios and Big Finish Creative?Why does BFC produce superb stand-alone animated releases of missing stories but isn't commissioned to produce animations for the blu-ray boxsets? Because there is no way that the Blu-ray budget could pay for animation to be done. It would barely scratch the surface.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Aug 21, 2022 21:20:21 GMT
Is The Lion no longer available to be re-scanned for the Season 2 Collection set? (as emjayf says 2 comments before my present comment now). I wasn't aware of this - & very much hope it's not the case, as that would be a real shame. Can anyone please clarify? There was no point in getting the print back from America when the present scan is of high enough quality. It would also be quite possible that the scratches and folds the print has would have caused the existing emulsion to be less stable and more prone to flaking off.
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Post by markperry on Aug 22, 2022 4:48:04 GMT
Where did the print go a fan or an archive. I don't need the gory details purely just for reference.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Aug 22, 2022 10:48:39 GMT
Where did the print go a fan or an archive. I don't need the gory details purely just for reference. The Lion is now owned by a film collector and friend of the Restoration Team. We had the option of borrowing the original print back, but decided there would be little to no benefit in doing so once we looked at the existing transfer. We did however borrow three other prints from the same collector; The Abominable Snowmen #2, The Time Meddler #1 & #3. These have all had new 1920 X 1440 scans alongside the BBC's original prints and are the basis for the restoration of the respective episodes. Paul
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Post by mattg on Aug 22, 2022 13:55:24 GMT
Now that the release of the long rumoured Season 2 is official, marking the very first instalment in the ‘Collection range of 60’s ‘Who, I’ve been deliberating on what else from that tragically purged era could conceivably follow…
The candidates are obvious of course: Season 1, Season 5 and Season 6 - each by dint of having the most surviving material and/or released animations.
Firstly, with ‘Reign of Terror’s two missing episodes previously animated Doctor Who’s very first season is intact bar Marco Polo. The latter’s a big problem though not least because except for a few production photos it has no surviving episodes, clips, John Cura telesnaps et al to utilise for any sort of (decent) recreation.
Season 5 meanwhile, augmented by the recent raft of animated releases of its missing stories (and with The Abominable Snowmen incoming) leaves only ‘The Wheel in Space’. Fortunately that serial is at least well served in the archives by two surviving episodes as well a full set of telesnaps. Finally Season 6, bolstered by Cosgrove Hall’s superlative animated episodes from The Invasion, requires only the remainder of The Space Pirate’s for completion.
Yet considering that ‘Wheel boasts the Cybermen it’s surely the likelier candidate for animation, especially against the far more challenging and less commercial ‘Pirates and Marco’. Or at least it would’ve been had BBC America not withdrawn their funding. Needless to say that that untimely ‘googly’ bowled by our transatlantic cousins has placed ‘Who animations in a precarious, uncertain future at present. As such further Hartnell/Troughton ‘Collection releases will likely also be impacted, especially if an alternate source of funding cannot be secured.
In these circumstances then a rudimentary telesnap presentation of the four ‘Wheel episodes wouldn’t be the very worst compromise I suppose. ‘Pirates and Marco visually recreated with just a few production photos though would be an altogether less desirable prospect. Indeed, not sure I could sit through a hefty 5+ episodes watching the same dozen or so production stills in constant rotation!
Taking all of the above into consideration I think it’s safe to say we’ll see Season 5 long before it’s more troublesome counterparts…
——————
But what do you think - what potential compromises would you accept, or not? Would you be happy with a reduced, budget present (I.e. not animated) of Marco Polo and ‘Pirates in order to technically complete Seasons 1 and 6 respectively? If Season 5 came with a predominately telesnap’d ‘Wheel would that be sufficient?
Or, were these seasons hypothetically released in their aforementioned states would you be disinclined to purchase them, confident perhaps that missing material would probably, somehow get fully animated (or maybe even found!) eventually…?
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Post by John Wall on Aug 22, 2022 18:54:08 GMT
I think they’ll look at the sales of Season Two……
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Post by timmunton on Aug 22, 2022 18:56:08 GMT
Is The Lion no longer available to be re-scanned for the Season 2 Collection set? (as emjayf says 2 comments before my present comment now). I wasn't aware of this - & very much hope it's not the case, as that would be a real shame. Can anyone please clarify? There was no point in getting the print back from America when the present scan is of high enough quality. It would also be quite possible that the scratches and folds the print has would have caused the existing emulsion to be less stable and more prone to flaking off. Thanks very much for your very helpful reply Richard 👍
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Post by timmunton on Aug 22, 2022 19:04:58 GMT
Where did the print go a fan or an archive. I don't need the gory details purely just for reference. The Lion is now owned by a film collector and friend of the Restoration Team. We had the option of borrowing the original print back, but decided there would be little to no benefit in doing so once we looked at the existing transfer. We did however borrow three other prints from the same collector; The Abominable Snowmen #2, The Time Meddler #1 & #3. These have all had new 1920 X 1440 scans alongside the BBC's original prints and are the basis for the restoration of the respective episodes. Paul Thanks for that info Paul. Very helpful to read it👍. Hopefully technological advances may be able to fix or at least improve the warping & tram lines etc. in The Lion, based on the existing scan. I don't know if that was a HD scan or not. From what you're saying I'm assuming (maybe wrongly) that Time Meddler episodes 2 & 4 have also had/will have new scans.
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Post by timmunton on Aug 22, 2022 19:16:17 GMT
Firstly, with ‘Reign of Terror’s two missing episodes previously animated Doctor Who’s very first season is intact bar Marco Polo. The latter’s a big problem though not least because except for a few production photos it has no surviving episodes, clips, John Cura telesnaps et al to utilise for any sort of (decent) recreation. My comment (ie. by Tim Munton): 6 of the 7 episodes of Marco Polo do have a full set of telesnaps each. These were printed in Doctor Who Magazine many years back (circa 2004-ish). Loose Cannon later used these for their second Marco Polo recon (made in black & white as opposed to their first version, from before the discovery of the telesnaps, which was in colour throughout, using colour production photos & probably other sources). Only one episode of MP, I forget which one, doesn't have any known surviving telesnaps. Apparently this is because that episode had a different director & either they didn't order any, or if they did it hasn't been possible to track them down yet.
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Post by jcoleman on Aug 23, 2022 13:13:58 GMT
Firstly, with ‘Reign of Terror’s two missing episodes previously animated Doctor Who’s very first season is intact bar Marco Polo. The latter’s a big problem though not least because except for a few production photos it has no surviving episodes, clips, John Cura telesnaps et al to utilise for any sort of (decent) recreation. Pirates and Marco visually recreated with just a few production photos though would be an altogether less desirable prospect. Indeed, not sure I could sit through a hefty 5+ episodes watching the same dozen or so production stills in constant rotation! To add to what timmunton has stated, the 6 sets of telesnaps were in the possession of director Waris Hussein. I believe this came to light during a conversation he was having with Derek Handley. The episode that doesn't have any telesnaps is episode 4 The Wall of Lies (so slap bang in the middle of the story), which was directed by John Crockett. There are also more than a few production photos. It is extremely well-represented by production stills, a great many of them in colour. Those who worked on the story and took the photos were clearly very proud of the sets and costumes and rightly so. The Loose Cannon reconstructions were both very good. It's hard to imagine that the latter can be much-improved upon given the resources available. The animation for the Reign of Terror episodes could really use a revisit. The style and likenesses are excellent, but the rapid cuts from one shot to another are nauseating. In these circumstances then a rudimentary telesnap presentation of the four ‘Wheel episodes wouldn’t be the very worst compromise I suppose. The Loose Cannon reconstruction of The Wheel in Space isn't a 'rudimentary' presentation, but features some rather nice CGI animations most notably of the Servo Robot in the first episode. That's not to say that an official release would be able to use these or employ the same techniques, but the nature of the story does lend itself to certain parts being recreated in close to photo-realistic fashion to enhance a telesnap reconstruction. Also with two surviving episodes there is plenty of material to draw from to up the image count, cliffhangers/reprises to insert into adjacent episodes (including the longest of all such instances, the cyberman in the 'bubble', which is around 45 seconds long), a few brief sensor clips and a few instances where footage can be re-used/manipulated e.g. Vallance and a Cyberman in the Oxygen Room. The Loose Cannon recon is very watchable and interestingly there are a few fans out there who have made various attempts at recreating scenes using a variety of techniques such as wav2lip. They're not professional-quality but do show promise with regards to what might one day be possible. Personally I find 'enhanced' telesnap reconstructions to be the best way of enjoying the missing episodes, but of course many prefer 'cartoon' animations. The DVD/Blu Ray team always does the best they can to give us the best of both worlds within the budgets they have to work with.
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Post by barneyhall on Aug 23, 2022 19:26:46 GMT
Firstly, with ‘Reign of Terror’s two missing episodes previously animated Doctor Who’s very first season is intact bar Marco Polo. The latter’s a big problem though not least because except for a few production photos it has no surviving episodes, clips, John Cura telesnaps et al to utilise for any sort of (decent) recreation. Pirates and Marco visually recreated with just a few production photos though would be an altogether less desirable prospect. Indeed, not sure I could sit through a hefty 5+ episodes watching the same dozen or so production stills in constant rotation! To add to what timmunton has stated, the 6 sets of telesnaps were in the possession of director Waris Hussein. I believe this came to light during a conversation he was having with Derek Handley. The episode that doesn't have any telesnaps is episode 4 The Wall of Lies (so slap bang in the middle of the story), which was directed by John Crockett. There are also more than a few production photos. It is extremely well-represented by production stills, a great many of them in colour. Those who worked on the story and took the photos were clearly very proud of the sets and costumes and rightly so. The Loose Cannon reconstructions were both very good. It's hard to imagine that the latter can be much-improved upon given the resources available. The animation for the Reign of Terror episodes could really use a revisit. The style and likenesses are excellent, but the rapid cuts from one shot to another are nauseating. In these circumstances then a rudimentary telesnap presentation of the four ‘Wheel episodes wouldn’t be the very worst compromise I suppose. The Loose Cannon reconstruction of The Wheel in Space isn't a 'rudimentary' presentation, but features some rather nice CGI animations most notably of the Servo Robot in the first episode. That's not to say that an official release would be able to use these or employ the same techniques, but the nature of the story does lend itself to certain parts being recreated in close to photo-realistic fashion to enhance a telesnap reconstruction. Also with two surviving episodes there is plenty of material to draw from to up the image count, cliffhangers/reprises to insert into adjacent episodes (including the longest of all such instances, the cyberman in the 'bubble', which is around 45 seconds long), a few brief sensor clips and a few instances where footage can be re-used/manipulated e.g. Vallance and a Cyberman in the Oxygen Room. The Loose Cannon recon is very watchable and interestingly there are a few fans out there who have made various attempts at recreating scenes using a variety of techniques such as wav2lip. They're not professional-quality but do show promise with regards to what might one day be possible. Personally I find 'enhanced' telesnap reconstructions to be the best way of enjoying the missing episodes, but of course many prefer 'cartoon' animations. The DVD/Blu Ray team always does the best they can to give us the best of both worlds within the budgets they have to work with. I think the odds on having a story that's already been animated be revisited when there are others that have no animation at all is highly unlikely. Once we get an animation that's pretty much it. It's why I was so heavily critical of the Web 3 one and why I'd rather not have one at all as there's always hope that way an opportunity ft a better one may come in the future
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