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Post by Peter Stirling on Feb 3, 2021 22:57:50 GMT
Hi Peter, many thanks for your post and your take on Rules, Rules, Rules, here is the TV Brain entry for this, which may agree with your post aboveRULES, RULES, RULES 24.09.1970 How Many Rules? (missing) 01.10.1970 Could We Do Without Rules? A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. 08.10.1970 Conventions and Customs (missing) 15.10.1970 Rules in Games (missing) 22.10.1970 Regulations A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. 05.11.1970 Law and Order (missing) 12.11.1970 Moral Codes (missing) 19.11.1970 Rule Makers (missing) 26.11.1970 Creative Rule Breaking (missing) 03.12.1970 Rule Enforcers (missing) 14.01.1971 Changing Roles (missing) 21.01.1971 Sex Roles (missing) 28.01.1971 Roles in the Family (missing) 04.02.1971 The Interview (missing) 11.02.1971 Leaders and Followers (missing) 18.02.1971 Moving up in the World (missing) 05.03.1971 Rights and Responsibilities (missing) 12.03.1971 The Role of Hero (missing) 19.03.1971 The Rule of Rule Breaker (missing) 25.03.1971 Can You Choose Your Own Rules? (missing) 06.05.1971 Too Many Rules (missing) 13.05.1971 Rules and the Generation Gap A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. 20.05.1971 Breaking with Tradition (missing) 27.05.1971 Prejudice (missing) 10.06.1971 Rules That Are Not Accepted (missing) 17.06.1971 Summing It Up (missing) . [/quote] Hi William obviously TV Brain has probably gathered the most accurate info. So there may well have been indeed some studio vtr editions.
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Post by williammcgregor on Feb 9, 2021 12:57:11 GMT
Genre: Drama Series and Plays - BBC in transmission order
42 The Borderers S1 7/1/69-18/3/69 Michael Gambon, Iain Cuthbertson 43 Z Cars 9/3/70 - 5/5/70, 18/5 -12/10/70 James Ellis John Slater Bernard Holley Derek Waring 44 The Wednesday Play 18/3/70 No Trams to Lime Street A Pop Musical Rosemary Nicols Glyn Owen Atro Morris 45 On Trial: Roger Casement 12/5/70 Roger Wordsworth Russell Napier Hugh Morton 46 The Troubleshooters 13/7/70 Barbara Shelley 13/9/71 - 3/1/72 G Keen P Latham R Barrett 47 The Black Tulip 20/9/70-18/10/70 John Stratton Tessa Wyatt Simon Ward 48 Ryan International 21/9/70-16/11/70 Adventures of a Paris-based Lawyer Created and Starring Kieron Moore Cyril Luckham 49 Play For Today 15/10/70 starring Ray Davies, 3-10/12/70, 29/4/71, 11/11/71, 9/12/71, 50 The Regiment 23//11/70 Father of the Regiment [Drama Plahouse] and S1 17/4/72 John Hallam C Cazenove 51 Dr Finlay's Casebook 6/12/70 and 27/12/70 A Cruickshank B Mullen B Simpson, Nigel Green R Urquhart 52 Choir Practice BBC2 24/12/70 A Musical Play Glyn Houston Richard Davies Stuart Burrows Jessie Evans 53 The Expert BBC2 10/1/71 Marius Goring Mike Pratt 24/1-14/2/71 14/3 and 21/3/71 54 The Doctors 21/4/71-29/4/71 6/5-17/6/71 N Stock J Lord Ann Castle Robert Brown 55 Paul Temple 4/8/71 -1/9/71 Francis Matthews Ros Drinkwater George Sewell 56 Thirty Minute Theatre BBC2 9/8/71 D Sinden David Langton Helen Lindsay Donald Burton 57 Trial BBC2 26/8/71-9/9/71 Tenniel Evans Robert Flemyng Terence Edmond 58 Owen M.D. 17/11-18/11/71 27/5/73-10/6/73 Nigel Stock Joan Newell Faith Brook Robin Ellis Susan Jameson 59 The View From Daniel Pike BBC2 25/11/-30/12/71 Roddy McMillan Neil McCarthy Elizabeth Begley Gay Hamilton 60 Play Of The Month 19/12/71 The Cherry Orchard J Agutter R Brooks C Gray C Johnson G Jones A Posta E Woodward 61 The Befrienders 19/2/72, 4/3-25/3/72, 15/4 and 29/4/72. The series dealt with the work of the Samaritans organisation, and the individual cases its staff came across. The leading cast members were Megs Jenkins and Michael Culver. 62 Spy Trap: Check Point 13/3-16/3/72 Paul Daneman Julian Glover Norman Rodway 63 The Man Outside 12/5-19/5/72 Rupert Davies Michael Redgrave Ann Todd/ Ronald Fraser Joan Hickson Sally James 64 The Sextet BBC2 11/7/72 Michelle Dotrice Denholm Elliott Richard Vernon Dennis Waterman Billie Whitelaw 65 No Exit 12/7/72 and 16/8/72 Katharine Blake Edwin Richfield/John Carson Peter Vaughan Melissa Stribling 66 Sutherland's Law 23/8/72 Man Overboard [Drama Playhouse] Derek Francis15/8/73 The Family Iain Cuthbertson 67 The Venturers 30/8/72 The Chancer [Drama Playhouse] Douglas Wilmer James Kerry Brian Blessed Anne de Vigier 68 War and Peace: A Preview 23/9/72 BBC2 Anthony Hopkins Morag Hood 69 The Edwardians 28/11/72 - 2/1/73 BBC2 Timothy West Mitzi Rogers John Welsh 70 Barlow At Large 7/3/73-28/3/73 and 11/4/73. Stratford Johns Neil Stacy Norman Comer 71 Barlow S1 13/2/74 Hit and 20/2/74 Corruption. Stratford Johns Derek Newark 72 Bedtime Stories: Goldilocks and The Three Bears by Alan Plater BBC 2 3/3/74 21.50 -22/40 pm Angharad Rees, Rosemary Leach, B Pringle Narrator: Charles Lloyd Pack. An anthology series of six plays, intended as a sequel to Dead of Night.
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Post by williammcgregor on Feb 15, 2021 21:19:02 GMT
Genre: Televised Sport
Sub-Genre: Football
Star Soccer - ATV
Does anyone know anything at all about the programme Star Soccer please?
Was it fully networked? The Liverpool Echo has an entry for it, so guess Granada Television showed it?
The Reading Evening Post too - which station served Reading, was it ATV, LWT or Southern Television?
Here is TV Brain entry for Star Soccer, a mixture of Midlands teams and also Home Internationals, held on b/w 16 mm, yet original was colour videotape. Some of them have no transmission or airdates - people here might be able to provide them?
Do some of these exist in colour on Youtube?
Perhaps ATVLand, or MACE have some of these in colour?
Jeff Leach and other ATV people may be able to advise us.
Perhaps Ronnie McDevitt knows about the England V Scotland games.
There must be other football knowledgeable people on the forum too?
Can anyone advise me, if there is any missing episodes that featured the Scottish team I support Hibernian FC, aka Hibs, thank you William.
STAR SOCCER
24.12.1967 England v Republic of Ireland (International) A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. 25.02.1968 Scotland v England A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. 20.05.1974 Scotland v Wales A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. 16.04.1977 West Bromwich Albion v Manchester City One or more sequences exist, but the complete programme is lost. 11.02.1979 Birmingham City v Leeds United / Crystal Palace v Stoke City One or more sequences exist from a recording on a domestic video format (e.g. VHS, Beta, Philips 1500), but the complete programme is lost. Opening Titles for All-Star Soccer One or more sequences exist, but the complete programme is lost. Wales v England A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Big League Soccer – Aston Villa vs Ipswich The only known complete copy is on a U-Matic videotape. All Star Soccer 4 – Wolves vs Norwich City The only known complete copy is on a U-Matic videotape. All Star Soccer 4 – Norwich City vs Liverpool The only known complete copy is on a U-Matic videotape. Liverpool vs Coventry City / Aston Villa vs Man. Utd. The only known complete copy is on a U-Matic videotape.
Highlights of Scottish League Cup Final
A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. European Championship Final 1971 Ajax v Thinaikos A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Birmingham v West Ham A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Stoke v Arsenal A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Scotland v Wales A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Scotland v Wales A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. England v Scotland A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Birmingham City v Derby County A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Manchester City v Everton A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Scotland v Wales A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Derby v Qpr A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Leicester v Coventry A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Birmingham v Derby A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Wolves v Coventry A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Liverpool v Newcastle A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Liverpool v Newcastle A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Derby County v Leeds A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Nottingham County v Walsall A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Arsenal v Liverpool A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. England v Poland A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Norwich City v Tottenham Hotspur A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. Nottingham Forest v Coventry City A 16mm black-and-white film print exists, but the programme was originally made using 2" colour videotape. 23.01.1982 INSERTS One or more sequences exist, but the complete programme is lost. 20.02.1982 INSERTS One or more sequences exist, but the complete programme is lost. 27.11.1982 INSERT: NOTTINGHAM FOREST v MAN CITY One or more sequences exist, but the complete programme is lost.
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Post by peterleslie on Feb 21, 2021 17:23:38 GMT
The Jim Davidson (no not that one) Show Actually The John Davidson Show. John Davidson Show.
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Post by williammcgregor on Apr 2, 2021 20:55:51 GMT
This is possibly one of the earliest Comedy dramas?
It says a BBC Telerecording, yet is listed as Missing.
Does it exist elsewhere or in private hands?
THE BROKEN JUG
24.08.1953 Episode No. 1 (missing)
21.00:The Broken Jug
A comedy by Heinrich von Kleist. English version by Lawrence Wilson. Adapted for television by Giles Cooper. [Starring] Hugh Griffith and Finlay Currie The action takes place in the village of Huisum in Holland in the year 1800. (Hugh Griffith is appearing in 'Escapade' at the Strand Theatre, London) (A BBC telerecording)
Contributors
Author: Heinrich von Kleist English version: Lawrence Wilson Adapted for television by: Giles Cooper Producer: Hal Burton Settings: Richard Wilmot Judge Adam: Hugh Griffith Inspector Walter: Finlay Currie Frau Marthe: Joan Hickson Eve: Ann Watford Ruprecht: Trader Faulkner Lizht: Charles Lloyd Pack Frau Brigitte: Jane Henderson Veit: Gerald C. Lawson Grete: Jacqueline MacKenzie Liese: Gabrielle Hamilton The Beadle: John G. Heller Manservant: Victor Platt
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Post by Nigel Lamb on Apr 2, 2021 22:55:31 GMT
It was a 35 mm film print but according to Lost shows it does not exist any longer.
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Post by paul carney on Apr 3, 2021 15:12:18 GMT
With regard to the query about the Star Soccer programme ATV showed this in the London region from 1965-1968.When they lost the London franchise LWT took over and at the beginning of the 1968-69 season The Big Match was born. ATV had the midlands franchise so Star Soccer was transferred there until the regional approach to showing soccer highlights ended in 1983. ATV had a very poor record for archiving these shows on the original VT until the mid 70s but many were tele recorded in black & white as exports. Fans of midlands soccer teams can be grateful to The Big Match where their sides were often shown as a second or third game as these excerpts are all that will remain of the original colour VT broadcasts.
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Post by markboulton on Apr 4, 2021 21:10:43 GMT
I think to be fair, the past 20 years have shown that ATV's VT retention was really not all that bad and still better than many other ITV companies.
However all companies routinely junked regional programmes shortly after broadcast or didn't record them in the first place, which was still the case in the 1990s and beyond.
Star Soccer was regional and hence long term archiving was not a priority and has no bearing on the company's policy or ability when it came to network shows.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Apr 7, 2021 7:45:51 GMT
Hi all.
Just a point that may provide a bit more clarity about what a 'telerecording' actually is and how you can differentiate between a genuine telerecording, a film recording and a kinescope.
I have said this before but people are still confused so I'll say it again; the BBC first used this term 'telerecording' so that viewers could tell the difference between a live and recorded broadcast. For example, the two existing episodes of 'The Quatermass Experiment' are telerecordings of the live broadcast. However, the programmes only ever went out live, never as telerecordings so now they exist purely as film recordings.
The question you're now asking may be how we can tell the difference when they're the same? Let's apply some logic; if the programme went out live it will not be noted in the Radio Times as a telerecording, or on BBC paperwork of the period. If it is broadcast from any format and it originated in a studio, it's a telerecording.
Yes, that's right. A videotape recording can be a telerecording. Where is the evidence for this, you might ask? Well, it's on the BBC's own paperwork. Let's take the first episode of Monty Python's Flying Circus as atypical example. It was broadcast on October 5th 1969 in colour from a videotape. The PasB states the following:
22.58.38 MONTY PYTHON'S FLYING CIRCUS (2) (11/4/9/1452) (Telerecorded on 7.9.1969 - VTC/6HT/53346) (31' 02")
Above we have the time of broadcast, the title, the episode number (it's Whither Canada, the second to be recorded but the first to be broadcast) and the project number. Beneath, details of the telerecording, the date corresponding with the studio recording date, the technical code and programme number and the duration. It was a telerecording broadcast from colour videotape.
A film copy of this particular programme would NOT be a telerecording, but simply a film recording. Another point worth bearing in mind; in the 1950's and 60's, the BBC did not allow 16mm film recordings to be used for broadcasting on the network. Complete studio programmes and studio inserts had to be recorded on videotape or 35mm film. 16mm location film was fine.
Reading the thread has been very confusing because most of the programmes being discussed are not telerecordings at all but simply film recordings. However, it's easy to see how people are confused when even the BBC doesn't get use of the term right as this thread has demonstrated. It's also worth pointing out that other broadcasters such as ATV may well have adopted the term to describe their film recordings and to differentiate that type of film from a normal shot film production. For example 'Escape into Night'. It's technical term is Film Recording (made from a videotape copy or master) but much poorer in quality than a film production on the same format.
What then is a Kinescope? In America and Canada, their film recording equivalent is a Kinescope. It differs greatly from a film recording because it is not a frame for frame capture of the original broadcast or videotape whereas film recordings are. Kinescopes were used for broadcast in the US but most broadcasters favoured shooting on actual film in studio for pre-recorded programmes, a practice that has continued until very recently. Shows such as Frasier were shot on film in front of a studio audience.
Kinescopes are very poor for one big reason, the capture film speed is 24 frames but the capture source was always 30 frames, compromising the recording. If that kinescope recording was then rebroadcast, it would be played on a telecine at 24fps which would then add 3:2 pulldown to create a 30fps feed. This technical process adds a field judder to motion in the image.
Anyway, this is a long winded way of saying that I think the name of the thread should be changed.
Paul
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Post by markboulton on Apr 7, 2021 8:56:15 GMT
I've been confused by this thread too but not for that reason. I always assumed it was film recordings being referred to, but what I can't understand is what film recordings are chosen to be listed.
Are these long lists that are being posted: a) Film recordings that were not known to have been made of VT originated shows that have come to light; b) Film recordings that were known about but had been misfiled and have now been filed; c) Inventory listings of film recordings that are "wanted" and are being sought; d) Film recordings that may or may not duplicate what the broadcaster knows about but have been found in another library abroad?
Any list of recordings could be posted here it seems but I don't know what it's meant to imply we're supposed to deduce from it.
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Post by williammcgregor on Apr 7, 2021 13:40:53 GMT
Hi Mark,
The long lists you mention are from TV Brain; perhaps someone on the forum can say if TV Brain lists mean film recordings only ?
or something more than that?
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Post by williammcgregor on Apr 12, 2021 12:54:14 GMT
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Post by Peter Stirling on Apr 12, 2021 13:25:53 GMT
The BFI holds Spiro Agnew Answers Bernard Levin (Original title) Film / Video Materials held in the www.bfi.org.uk/bfi-national-archive/research-bfi-archive/help-with-access-moving-image-collectionsFilm materials (2) Original Telerecorded Negative - Safety - Mute - 1351 Feet - Stock date: 1970 - - C-160367 Master - Restricted access to preserved film 16mm Re-recorded Negative - Safety - Sound - 1351 Feet - Stock date: 1970 - - C-160368 Master - Restricted access to preserved film This appears to have been an ATV programme. Here is a newspaper entry for it. How does the forum think this programme came about? Did Spiro come to England - did Bernard go Stateside, or were both of them in their respective countries? 10.00 News At Ten 10.30 Spiro Agnew Answers Bernard Levin: A far ranging and topical interview with America's most outspoken vice-president 11.13 World of ... Published: Tuesday 30 June 1970 Newspaper: Reading Evening Post www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results?newspaperTitle=Reading%20Evening%20PostApparently quite a scoop for ATV at the time William as it was the first time dear old Spiro had given an interview to a foreign TV station.Bernard had to go there to do it ...IIRC.
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Post by williammcgregor on Apr 12, 2021 14:38:16 GMT
Thanks for that info Peter ... good old Spiro
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Post by brianfretwell on Apr 17, 2021 10:29:11 GMT
Just, possibly, to confuse things weren't there also some "viewing copies" made for review projection not transmission made at 16 2/3 fps? I'm sure I read about them somewhere.
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