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Post by richardwoods on Aug 21, 2021 21:35:43 GMT
No one is blaming anyone else. I'm not sure why anyone is trying to suggest that they are. The point is that there has been no universal agreement on animation and the styles employed. There hasn't been a single one where everyone has been 100% happy with it. Each and every one has had their fans and also their detractors, but human nature being what it is, it does tend to be those who don't like things who want to to be more vocal about it. And despite what Richard Woods seems to think, no one has any issues with contructive critism. The trouble is, a lot of it simply isn't constuctive at all. Like I said Richard, we will have to agree to differ. Whatever my personal views, there does seem to be a higher level of dissatisfaction with the animation of Web 3 than with previous animated releases, certainly from on line purchase reviews as well as reviews on other forums. I really don’t think it can be conveniently dismissed as usual fandom complaining for this reason. Anyone who knows my input here will realise that I’ve been a very keen supporter of animation right from the start with The Invasion and I’ve bought all the Troughton releases until now. I’m pretty sure that the only direct criticism I’ve ever levelled at specific animations was a gripe about aspects of the Fury release (arms!) and my concerns here, which I do seem to share with many other people. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. Even today, if people think something is not to their taste or don’t like it for whatever reason they are perfectly entitled to make their views known. Hopefully this may have some positive impact on the route taken for animation of future releases.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Aug 22, 2021 20:17:55 GMT
Watching the colour animated episode-first impressions-I really like it.Engaging and witty,it's main strength is that it preserves the legacy of the actors who took so much effort and talent to make the original live-action episode. It's really a tribute to them. Also,the logistics of the original production which involved characters moving up and down rostra (the underground platforms) would have looked awkward and stiff if 3D animation hadn't been used. As such,the sequence of Jamie and the soldier climbing onto the platform to escape the Yeti with the beautiful lights going off into the distance is superb.All in all,a good effort.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Aug 22, 2021 20:54:14 GMT
I'm actually more annoyed that production subtitles haven't been included on this release. Why is that when every single other release has them? Was it a question of budget or just another exclusive feature to make us invest in any future blu-ray boxset?I'm also not keen on having to change the disc to continue watching the serial with the colour animation.Why wasn't this made an extra feature on the first disc?Frustrating.
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Post by RhysH on Aug 23, 2021 10:09:50 GMT
Watched a lot of the extras over the weekend - Going Underground was a very nice one. Really well put together and lots of very nice contributions from them all. Nice comment that London transport were angry at them for filming in the tube after telling them they weren't allowed, when in fact they just couldn't tell it was recreated in the studio! Very impressive sets it has to be said. All in all, really enjoyed this release!
Hope we get some more news on intended future release - just Evil to come next month and then nothing to look forward to... (although I'm sure all the teams are furiously working away on various releases!)
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Post by Richard Bignell on Aug 24, 2021 11:18:40 GMT
I'm actually more annoyed that production subtitles haven't been included on this release. Why is that when every single other release has them? Every other release hasn't had them, Jaspal. Both Power and Macra didn't have any production subtitles. And yes, it would have been down to the budget. To produce production notes, you're employing someone to research and write them to precise timecodes and they take approximately one week per episode to do. So, there is a reasonable cost attached to doing them.
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Post by andyeves on Aug 24, 2021 14:13:14 GMT
As a matter of interest, have any figures been released (or is there a reliable ballpark figure) of how much these animations cost to produce, whether it be a full 6-parter (Power etc) or 4-parter (Macra) or singleton (WOF3)? Similarly, is there any indication of how profitable each of these animations have been?
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Post by John Wall on Aug 24, 2021 15:48:33 GMT
As a matter of interest, have any figures been released (or is there a reliable ballpark figure) of how much these animations cost to produce, whether it be a full 6-parter (Power etc) or 4-parter (Macra) or singleton (WOF3)? Similarly, is there any indication of how profitable each of these animations have been? I think that’s commercial in confidence.
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Post by George D on Aug 26, 2021 3:26:22 GMT
I'm actually more annoyed that production subtitles haven't been included on this release. Why is that when every single other release has them? Every other release hasn't had them, Jaspal. Both Power and Macra didn't have any production subtitles. And yes, it would have been down to the budget. To produce production notes, you're employing someone to research and write them to precise timecodes and they take approximately one week per episode to do. So, there is a reasonable cost attached to doing them. I like people to earn a decent living but if it's a choice between none, there are companies that will make them for 1.25 per minute. www.rev.com/subtitle/how-it-works
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Post by Richard Bignell on Aug 26, 2021 9:22:22 GMT
Every other release hasn't had them, Jaspal. Both Power and Macra didn't have any production subtitles. And yes, it would have been down to the budget. To produce production notes, you're employing someone to research and write them to precise timecodes and they take approximately one week per episode to do. So, there is a reasonable cost attached to doing them. I like people to earn a decent living but if it's a choice between none, there are companies that will make them for 1.25 per minute. www.rev.com/subtitle/how-it-worksThat's a basic subtitling company, George - people who take video and create subtitles from the speech on the soundtrack. BBC Studios already use a company for that. It's not what we're talking about here. The production subtitles need to be throughly researched and specially written to fit specific timecodes. That's what takes the time and the talent to do. The end process done by the subtitling house of creating the end subtitle file that is encoded against the episode is the easy bit.
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Post by George D on Aug 26, 2021 13:58:40 GMT
That's a basic subtitling company, George - people who take video and create subtitles from the speech on the soundtrack. BBC Studios already use a company for that. It's not what we're talking about here. The production subtitles need to be throughly researched and specially written to fit specific timecodes. That's what takes the time and the talent to do. The end process done by the subtitling house of creating the end subtitle file that is encoded against the episode is the easy bit. I'm not understanding the difference. Don't all subtitle files include time codes? What research is added that gives it the the majority of the work? Can you explain with more detail please. Thanks
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Post by Richard Bignell on Aug 26, 2021 14:32:17 GMT
Programme subtitles are just the on-screen dialogue that pretty much every DVD release has.
Production subtitles are the specially written information subtitles that reveal how the programme you're watching has been put together made that have appeared on every Doctor Who DVD (in the original run) from Spearhead from Space in 2000 onwards. They require a lot of very specific and very hard work to produce the approximately 12,000 to 21,000 words required, dependant on the number of episodes.
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Post by richardwoods on Oct 10, 2021 13:51:04 GMT
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Post by John Wall on Oct 10, 2021 14:28:57 GMT
I’m sure that carefully considered positive feedback is taken seriously.
There have been occasions when animation has been updated/improved and that may be possible when the BluRay box sets start on b&w seasons. Things like windmill arms may be able to be sorted out fairly easily.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Oct 10, 2021 17:37:19 GMT
I’m sure that carefully considered positive feedback is taken seriously. There have been occasions when animation has been updated/improved and that may be possible when the BluRay box sets start on b&w seasons. Things like windmill arms may be able to be sorted out fairly easily. Yes,and while we're at it,let's ask the artists to go back and improve every Spiderman comic,every Batman comic and that issue of Superman from 1964 that the artist wasn't quite happy with in the last panel!I've said it before,the animation is just something to hang the soundtrack on to give an alternative viewing experience.The original episodes are long gone and thesr are just homages to them.Nothing fills me with more apathy than the thought of re-investing in what is already a contrived product.Sorry.
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Post by John Wall on Oct 10, 2021 19:54:31 GMT
I’m sure that carefully considered positive feedback is taken seriously. There have been occasions when animation has been updated/improved and that may be possible when the BluRay box sets start on b&w seasons. Things like windmill arms may be able to be sorted out fairly easily. Yes,and while we're at it,let's ask the artists to go back and improve every Spiderman comic,every Batman comic and that issue of Superman from 1964 that the artist wasn't quite happy with in the last panel!I've said it before,the animation is just something to hang the soundtrack on to give an alternative viewing experience.The original episodes are long gone and thesr are just homages to them.Nothing fills me with more apathy than the thought of re-investing in what is already a contrived product.Sorry. The aim is to try and achieve as good a viewing experience as possible. A few tweaks here and there to remove something irritating is a positive thing imho.
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