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Post by Richard Marple on Oct 22, 2020 21:25:17 GMT
You say things have been repeated. The programmes may have been repeated but were they edited? Is it possible to appreciate the genius of Ronnie Barker if you're never able to see his work as it was originally broadcast or at all? It isn't about wanting to see the Black and White Minstrel Show on TV. It's the cumulative effect of all of this on our culture. I have a friend who lives in Los Angeles, he has danced on American TV in ads and if you mentioned his name quite a percentage of Americans would know him. One day I mentioned Gene Kelly and he didn't know who that was. He's black and I know that black people are nervous about watching old stuff and what they might be confronted by. But in the same way I doubt many British young people could name stars of comedy from the 1960s. Which is quite unlike how it was when we grew up, watching Will Hay, Stan Laurel, Abbott and Costello and numerous others. Apart from Madonna's Vogue and the occasional screening of Singing In The Rain I wouldn't have known who Gene Kelly either. This isn't a new thing, there are plenty of artisans who were famous in their own lifetimes are forgotten these days, apart from to people studying a particular genre. Even Jane Austen was forgotten for decades until her books fell into the public domain and publishers started to print cheap books for people to read when travelling on trains.
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Post by petercheck on Oct 22, 2020 21:30:31 GMT
And yes, we have had this discussion before, and one of the things left unanswered was what exactly young people would learn from watching the Minstrel show or hearing the N-word used ironically. How to not take things too seriously? I certainly didn't as a youngster at the time... and neither did my black West Indian stepfather! Just my two penny's worth.
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Oct 22, 2020 21:34:13 GMT
You say things have been repeated. The programmes may have been repeated but were they edited? Is it possible to appreciate the genius of Ronnie Barker if you're never able to see his work as it was originally broadcast or at all? It isn't about wanting to see the Black and White Minstrel Show on TV. It's the cumulative effect of all of this on our culture. I have a friend who lives in Los Angeles, he has danced on American TV in ads and if you mentioned his name quite a percentage of Americans would know him. One day I mentioned Gene Kelly and he didn't know who that was. He's black and I know that black people are nervous about watching old stuff and what they might be confronted by. But in the same way I doubt many British young people could name stars of comedy from the 1960s. Which is quite unlike how it was when we grew up, watching Will Hay, Stan Laurel, Abbott and Costello and numerous others. But you're still assuming that people can't just simply be ignorant for no particular reason (except perhaps failing education). We're still talking politics, sadly.
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Post by Rob Moss on Oct 22, 2020 21:58:24 GMT
The definition of "socially aware" is:
"alert to injustice in society, especially racism".
So can we please stop using it like it's a bad thing?
Actually this entire thread has gone way off-topic, so let's get back on track please.
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Post by John Green on Oct 22, 2020 22:15:07 GMT
Actually this entire thread has gone way off-topic, so let's get back on track please. Thank you for not going OTT in response. I think it really is better to have this site as a place where we can talk about much-loved TV shows. And Blake's 7.
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Oct 23, 2020 11:48:25 GMT
So, now how about some "neutral" BBC stuff that has never been released that could be repeated while productions are slowed down: 1950s: Jane Eyre 1960s: Pride and prejudice, The Borderers 1970s: The devil's crown 1980s: The Cleopatras
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Post by richardwoods on Oct 23, 2020 12:47:55 GMT
😉
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Post by John Green on Oct 23, 2020 16:56:06 GMT
Covid: Good news for archive TV?
I have to admit that when I saw the thread's title, I was reminded of the bloke who went round to his mate's house to get back the lawn-mower which Jim had borrowed months before, only to find that Jim had snuffed-it overnight. "Oh. That's terrible. Did he mention my lawn-mower?".
But it's true that something this big disrupts plans and changes behaviours. Apparently digital borrowings are up from libraries...And once people have changed their behaviours, once they've ordered groceries or TV shows online, they're unlikely to forget how to do it.
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Post by John Wall on Oct 23, 2020 21:11:34 GMT
There have been some good and interesting points in this thread.
It must be remembered that not everything from TV’s past is wonderful. I’ve been to lots and lots of MBWs and seen stuff that I wouldn’t have worried about being permanently lost!
Old material was made with the constraints of the time, things can sometimes be slow, stagey and wordy. TV, in particular, is made to a budget and has to fill a predefined time slot. I love the Pertwee era but there are a lot of six parters that would be far far better as four parters - but Barry and Terrance had a certain amount of money and had to deliver 26 x 25 minute shows.
It is important that old material be available/shown as it’s an important part of our cultural heritage. However, things sometimes need putting in context.
Star Trek’s writers took a few potshots at the Cold War, M*A*S*H, both film and TV, was really about Vietnam, The Invaders was reds under the bed.
TPTV show a lot of old material and they’ll often put up a caption slide with a voiceover to advise that something was made in a particular era and reflects it.
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Post by John Green on Oct 23, 2020 21:35:12 GMT
....TPTV show a lot of old material and they’ll often put up a caption slide with a voiceover to advise that something was made in a particular era and reflects it. I think they had the frightners put on them that they'd be closed down if they didn't put up warnings. I tend to dislike scenes of men and women being terorised and hurt, so much (most?) horror output is questionable, to me. I really don't see how people can enjoy that sort of stuff, but a lot do. One of the reasons I haven't watched Watchmen is that there's newsreel of actual murder shown at the beginning-or have I got that wrong?-same thing with the film of Genet's The Balcony. One direct connection between Covid and covetousness is that the death of horders/whatever might lead to reels surfacing-or being skipped.
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Post by John Wall on Oct 23, 2020 21:47:41 GMT
I know TPTV have had a couple of complaints made against them - although I think it was by very few people.
I’m unsure how long they’ve been putting up warnings, but it’s not unusual and easy to do. I’ve never seen anything that’s particularly offended me, probably because I lived through the era and understand the context.
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Post by John Wall on Oct 24, 2020 9:14:14 GMT
60s DW had a reasonable number of black actors appearing.
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Post by Richard Marple on Oct 24, 2020 11:49:34 GMT
Dr Who did fairly well with non-white characters as time when on, especially when the writers made an effort to make them rounded characters.
I remember reading a feature on inter-racial kisses on TV, trying to find the first. It started with the one in Star Trek and worked backwards, mentioning the one in Emergency Ward 10 and eventually found one in a Dutch programme in 1960.
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Post by richardwoods on Oct 24, 2020 12:07:41 GMT
A Classic Who weekend would be just what the doctor ordered (no pun intended)! If it wanted to, the BBC could screen some black & white classic drama on BBC4, the Forsyte Saga might be a good starting point.
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Oct 24, 2020 14:38:46 GMT
I've always thought of classic DW as way behind star trek, socially. Tomb of the Cybermen for example. DW was much less original in its stories anyway.
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