Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Jun 24, 2020 19:22:00 GMT
And I think - correct me if I'm wrong - that we know all of their names, so they're not secretive, and we're very grateful to them. Wonderful people. If the pubs ever open and we meet up in them I shall buy them several drinks :-) Richard We do? For other shows, it's often not disclosed. Nearly all of "At last the 1948 show" came back from collectors and I can't recall ever seeing their names. But my original point was, I'm totally fine with that. Totally up to them. I'm totally fine with them choosing or not choosing to remain anonymous. I'm not totally fine with people choosing or not choosing to return missing episodes. But then, it's totally up to me whether I'm totally fine or not, isn't it. It's totally up to all of us how we choose to behave towards one another - within legal limits. That's the way society works. My point remains from all those posts ago, the nicer you are to people, the nicer they will be back. It's all your choice, though. Richard
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RWels
Member
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Post by RWels on Jun 24, 2020 19:57:24 GMT
We do? For other shows, it's often not disclosed. Nearly all of "At last the 1948 show" came back from collectors and I can't recall ever seeing their names. But my original point was, I'm totally fine with that. Totally up to them. I'm totally fine with them choosing or not choosing to remain anonymous. I'm not totally fine with people choosing or not choosing to return missing episodes. But then, it's totally up to me whether I'm totally fine or not, isn't it. It's totally up to all of us how we choose to behave towards one another - within legal limits. That's the way society works. My point remains from all those posts ago, the nicer you are to people, the nicer they will be back. It's all your choice, though. Richard But be fair, I'm not the one generalising. What I said about collectors being almost human was (of course) totally ironical.
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Jun 24, 2020 20:08:02 GMT
I'm totally fine with them choosing or not choosing to remain anonymous. I'm not totally fine with people choosing or not choosing to return missing episodes. But then, it's totally up to me whether I'm totally fine or not, isn't it. It's totally up to all of us how we choose to behave towards one another - within legal limits. That's the way society works. My point remains from all those posts ago, the nicer you are to people, the nicer they will be back. It's all your choice, though. Richard But be fair, I'm not the one generalising. What I said about collectors being almost human was (of course) totally ironical. I wasn’t generalising about collectors. I was generalising about people who behave in anti social ways and are therefore forced to be secretive about what they do lest they earn the condemnation of others. It’s just not a very nice place to find yourself in life. We get into funny arguments when we bring in choice and justification. Everyone has choice. No one needs to justify their actions. But those who react to what you do have exactly the same freedoms. They can choose to hate you without justification. Generally speaking (not always, I know) society tends to work on a tit-for-tat basis. So if you want people to be nice to you, be nice to them :-)
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Jun 27, 2020 4:13:35 GMT
Hi all, Just to add some perspective to this,over the years I have spoken and negotiated with a great many film collectors. Quite a few are personal friends. I've heard just about every reason you could imagine for not either returning, selling or loaning out a film. When something (anything) is part of a collection, it has a place. It's a part of the whole. For my collector friends that were dealers, most didn't care for that argument. They were passionate about the subject and offered a service to other enthusiasts. It's those enthusiasts who cherish the content. But I can tell you now that the worst thing that has happened in the world of 16mm film collecting is the interest in archive TV. Most film collectors regard TV prints as poor quality fillers, a support film at best that they will tolerate because of its content. The fact that most archive TV prints are black and white is one of the reasons they are not well regarded amongst collectors. However, the interest in old TV prints has done several things and most of them aren't good. The first is that it has driven up the price of this material. On top of that, there has been an increase in interest for this type of content from 'outsiders', people who are not film collectors but just interested in the his particular content. These people are not liked by collectors because they tend to be quite pushy and show no interest in the hobby: they are seen as scalpers. Because of that, expect to pay through the nose if you don't show empathy with collectors. The argument that collectors with missing shows such as Doctor Who in their collections should make them available for the greater good doesn't wash with true 16mm enthusiasts and it doesn't help when people accuse collectors who sell their films on Ebay of depriving the nation of the content. This is nonsense. The nation was deprived of the content when the broadcasters threw it away. It's one of the reasons I don't put any pressure on collectors because in the end, they will always, rightly or wrongly in others eyes, do what they think is right for them. Paul Hi Paul: Thanks for your comments. I'm curious if you happen to be aware of what these six episodes are that Mr. Morris is referencing. If so, are these different episodes than the two episodes in private hands (from what you could determine) that you have mentioned in the past? On the other hand, are the two you mentioned among those six that Phil Morris has in mind? Best wishes, Doug
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Post by brianfretwell on Jun 28, 2020 7:39:59 GMT
I am getting the thought that some of these people with films they aren't interested in returning are more like the hoarders we see in TV programmes than ordinary collectors.
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Post by Dominic Abrams on Jun 30, 2020 15:37:23 GMT
I've heard just about every reason you could imagine for not either returning, selling or loaning out a film... ...The argument that collectors with missing shows such as Doctor Who in their collections should make them available for the greater good doesn't wash with true 16mm enthusiasts and it doesn't help when people accuse collectors who sell their films on Ebay of depriving the nation of the content. This is nonsense. The nation was deprived of the content when the broadcasters threw it away. It's one of the reasons I don't put any pressure on collectors because in the end, they will always, rightly or wrongly in others eyes, do what they think is right for them. Hi Paul, thank you for this perspective which is usually absent from these discussions of what “should” or “shouldn’t” be done. I was wondering if you would be willing to elaborate further, or share more of the reasons that you have heard in your communications with collectors for not returning films. Is there any overriding sentiment that you can glean, or are the reasons ultimately more varied and individual? Fans here and elsewhere debate ad nauseum the issue of financial compensation. Does this and the issue of recognition for preserving the material actually come into play amongst collectors?. I am genuine interested in hearing more about these perspectives. I realise that I am asking you to speak on other people’s behalf, and that many others who respond will attempt to invalidate any reasons that may be identified. I don’t post here often as I have little interest in adding to the noise, but I do appreciate your contributions as well as several others here. I just wish more people would listen more and try to understand perspectives other than their own! Thanks again.
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Post by Kevin Wilson on Jun 30, 2020 16:24:14 GMT
Makes you wonder if the collector got a slice of the profits from the sale of the returned episodes from dvd sales or online, if they would be more enclined to return it
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Post by Luke Sherlaw on Jun 30, 2020 22:06:57 GMT
I can only imagine the cock and bull stories that some collectors have come up with in the past:
"Me mam wants to borrow it, i'll hand it in after" *2 years later* Are you in the position to return it now? "I haven't been seeing a lot of me mam lately, she still hasn't borrowed it."
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dean
Member
Posts: 2
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Post by dean on Jul 17, 2020 21:09:25 GMT
I don't really buy into the money argument, TBH (no pun intended). If they ever had a monetary value they're losing value all the time. Those of us who care are slowly getting old, bored or dying. With so much new Who now the interest in old Who is diluting away. And I never knew how an ME could be sold as something unique anyway; like in City of Death, the seller could be selling 5 copies at the same time and not telling any of his buyers, and could the buyers really sue if they found out? Anyway, I'm glad that there are people working in our Health Service and essential services who are prepared to go well beyond the call of money to keep us all alive and healthy in these times. Perhaps some ME owner might consider how some underpaid doctor or nurse may well end up risking his or her life in order to keep them or their friends or family alive. Sorry about the rant Richard I agree that the younger generation doesn't generally care much for old tv, especially b&w. Wouldn't it be ironic though if "Coronas Of The Sun" was returned during this pandemic? I'm 16 and really interested about the missing episodes
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Post by tom rogers on Jul 17, 2020 23:26:38 GMT
Well, Dean, you've come to the right place Take some time to read through the archives on this site and you will find much to amaze you. There are some very interesting stories and many truly knowledgeable people that will fill you in on all the latest. Tom
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Post by Simon B Kelly on Jul 18, 2020 8:39:39 GMT
I've managed to get my kids interested in archive TV and it's historical importance, so hopefully there will still be a small band of missing episode hunters when we're no longer around. We need future generations to preserve our heritage with plenty of back-up copies in case someone hits the DELETE button or the HDDs fail.
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Post by stevehoare61 on Jul 19, 2020 11:36:55 GMT
I think some of you might be a little shocked at how many youngsters do like OLD Who and are interested in missing episodes. Just because the recent WHO stuff on TV has been naff in my personal opinion, its made kids look back at older stuff to see what we old gits are moaning about, when 'it woz scarey.' I work in a Hostel, with lots of young'uns, they know what its all about, I also spend time with youngsters at my village school, reading with them, which half of them arent interested in and just want to natter. These kids are aware of Doctor Who, through their parents and grandparents and they watch it all on UTube. Theres a Market still there, and while they still make it, and they release the animations and anything new is put out ASAP, it will continue and lets not forget how many copies Web of Fear sold. As one of the main Instigators of this debate about how obsessive Collectors are, I still stand by my post, about the obsessive Nature of Collectors and why after all this time, which is flying by, and despite the fact Paul has made First Contact, so to speak,are we are still no closer to knowing which episodes they are or if we will ever see them in our lifetimes.
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Post by isaacc on Jan 14, 2021 6:22:19 GMT
Just wondering if anything new has come of this? To my knowledge, no. But there are some very keen chaps here who may have heard something that slipped past me. Thanks.
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Post by stevehoare61 on Jan 14, 2021 7:54:29 GMT
If it has isaacc.its passed me by. Theres a teeny little bit of me, thats hoping that something may have been found, but is being kept back for 2023, purely my opinion here, but hopefully we may have a new Doctor, male, and a decent Showrunner by then. Having an exclusive 'lost' ep or two,,,to show the same evening, could be amazing. Some of you may remember on the night of the 50th Anniversay, Radio Times had listed, something exclusive and amazing billed on BBC3 or 4, whatever it was, and it ended up being An Unearthly Child, hardly any of those things.Lets hope this time around, providing we all make it in one piece, it truly is.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Jan 14, 2021 10:34:56 GMT
Just wondering if anything new has come of this? To my knowledge, no. But there are some very keen chaps here who may have heard something that slipped past me. Thanks. Nothing. In the rather nice Richard Molesworth interview on Episode 70 of the Type 40 podcast in December, Richard said that he wasn't aware of any evidence that substantiates Philip's claim of six episodes in private hands. Richard Molesworth Interview
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