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Post by Scot Ferre on Jan 26, 2019 2:58:52 GMT
Please keep in mind that some of the returns very recently were restored. To return everything at once might not be a good idea since restoration may be needed for the worthwhile ones.
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Post by scotttelfer on Jan 26, 2019 7:50:34 GMT
I'm not certain at all PM has more at all. I think he would have handed them all over at the same time even any thing that was non transmittable at the time of recovery. There are others out there who also may have found stuff that we don't know about yet either. PM did some fantastic work that is true but what are the odds of him finding two separate hauls of 1960's Dr. Who episodes when you consider the sheer amount of material BBC Enterprises sent abroad in the 1960's
Frankly at this point I think it is silly to make any assumptions one way or the other. Unless you genuinely believe he scoured archives across the world and found absolutely nothing between late 2011 (the Jos haul) and early 2018 (the Sierra Leone cinema tip off), I would say we should be cautious and wait to see what he has to say about his search. There are more announcements to come, it is entirely possible there's no more Doctor Who in there but to write it off on the basis that he would have told us already doesn't hold any water at the moment, we simply lack the information. We just have to wait and see and hope.
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Post by Greg H on Jan 26, 2019 8:14:49 GMT
One thing is certain, we are grateful for the return of the Web. Phil is our friend; he must be treated with respect and kindness.
In answer to the original question, I suggest the Winchester.
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Post by Leighton Haberfield on Jan 26, 2019 10:53:21 GMT
What bothers me is that those two Likely lads eps were identified in 2007 and thanks to BBC complacency nothing got sorted and now poor old Rodney Bewes has passed away, and he would have been a great guest at a MBW event. What else have The BBC turned their noses up to?
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Post by John Wall on Jan 26, 2019 11:00:54 GMT
There seemed to be a bit of a disagreement at MBW between a couple of the people involved in the Wheel 1 animation as to the future. What we’ve got is a bit of an oddball animation. I don’t mean that unkindly as the animation was, imho, very good. However, it wasn’t an abbreviated or condensed Episode 1 but a pretty good reconstruction of the first ten minutes. Wheel is a six part “big monster” story with two surviving episodes - I see it, even in that state, as a good candidate for animation. As to PM I’m afraid I don’t think he’s got any more DW - although I’d like to be proven wrong. I am certain Phil has more, its just a question of what and how many? The bigger question is will we ever get to see them. We have evidence from recent comedy finds that PM is prepared to sit on finds for at least 5 years before returning. Apart from the fact that there’s nothing other than vague statements and wishful thinking what’s the evidence? There’s also no evidence that he sits on things for years. He got to Jos in late 2011 but spent at least a year fighting red tape and Enemy and Web were back in the UK receiving TLC in early 2013. There may be a delay in announcing things but, as I’ve previously stated, he’s clearly working closely with the copyright holders - the two M&Ws demonstrated that.
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Post by Greg H on Jan 26, 2019 11:01:51 GMT
What bothers me is that those two Likely lads eps were identified in 2007 and thanks to BBC complacency nothing got sorted and now poor old Rodney Bewes has passed away, and he would have been a great guest at a MBW event. What else have The BBC turned their noses up to? I think it is fairly well known that they have let several things of considerable importance (to those who care about old telly) slip through their fingers, irretrievably. I think part of the problem is that they are such a large corporation it is always going to be hit and miss if a film print gets seen by the right eyes before it is skipped by some temp or even if employees give a hoot. That said, I have no time for the BBC whatsoever. I actively dislike them for various reasons other than their archiving policies (or lack thereof) and view them as something of an anachronism.
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Post by John Wall on Jan 26, 2019 11:32:46 GMT
Yup, it'd definitely be worth pursuing the person if PM knows who it is. If you told me to bet money on whether I think this person has at least 1 other ME or not (excluding WOF 3) then i'd personally wager on them having one. It's not the kind of hobby someone would have socially aware up on one 2011 morning and developed overnight, it's likely done by an extreme fanatic who has been into film collecting for years and years, thus could well have been involved in similar activity before. The thought had occurred to me though: could this stuff be arranged to be sold on the black market? Although I do think their personal collection is the motive, missing material being the crown jewel in anyone's collection. Black Market sales are very possible, but it would likely happen very quietly between personal connections only. Im leaning towards it being for a personal collection of a fanatic with capital, time, & connections. Usually, it would be an older person with that kind of free time and disposable capital, which opens the possibility they have been searching for prints for 30-40 years potentially back in the day when recovery efforts were less through than they are now. Over that period of time, quite a few could have been excised from archives through one means or another. It is quite possible such an individual could have been searching before wipings ended and the plight of ME's was known. Someone connected with a broadcaster, having prints marked for return or destruction could be contacted, offered money, and think why not sell them quietly (remove traceable markings) and list them as destroyed? Not likely, but possible. Detection and identification of such an individual(s) would be difficult, ascertaining what they actually have being even more difficult, but accessing said material for recovery might be a feat just short of a miracle. If someone were to go to such lengths to aquire prints, I cant imagine they would ever part with their one of a kind stash. In reality, even if this scenario was true, we would probably never know. As legitimate forgotten archives become exhausted, our hope dwindles to collectors and hoarders, where even if it is known who possesses what, they might not be available for decades or ever. I firmly believe those on the inner circle of DW ME's have definitely thought of this or similar scenarios & probably keep tabs on it. If you knew of a collector that had or likely had missing items, I would think you would want to keep a watch if they were to pass on being able to contact heirs & kin to secure items before they journey to the skip. I have faith in their efforts. It was only in the mid 70s that Ian Levine started trying to acquire episodes for personal viewing and he didn’t manage to get into Enterprises until, iirc, 1978 - now 41 years ago. The primary source of the MEs recovered from collectors seems to have been opportunistic recoveries from the disposal pile a couple of years earlier. It was then that Ian and Sue Malden started the hunt, recovering prints and video tapes from overseas broadcasters. We know that there are one or two still with a collector, or collectors, although *we* don’t know what they are or where they came from - the Australian returns is certainly possible. It’s best to avoid wishful thinking and scenarios whose only benefit is to boost the number of prints that are out there. Unless a large number of the Australian prints were saved - and they seem to have been acquired in pairs - it’s difficult, considering what’s already been recovered, to contemplate very many still out there.
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Post by John Wall on Jan 26, 2019 11:37:50 GMT
Please keep in mind that some of the returns very recently were restored. To return everything at once might not be a good idea since restoration may be needed for the worthwhile ones. Restoration is only done if things are going to be broadcast or released on DVD. All that will happen is cleaning, inspection, repair/renewal of splices and transfer/scanning.
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Post by John Wall on Jan 26, 2019 11:40:59 GMT
I'm not certain at all PM has more at all. I think he would have handed them all over at the same time even any thing that was non transmittable at the time of recovery. There are others out there who also may have found stuff that we don't know about yet either. PM did some fantastic work that is true but what are the odds of him finding two separate hauls of 1960's Dr. Who episodes when you consider the sheer amount of material BBC Enterprises sent abroad in the 1960's Frankly at this point I think it is silly to make any assumptions one way or the other. Unless you genuinely believe he scoured archives across the world and found absolutely nothing between late 2011 (the Jos haul) and early 2018 (the Sierra Leone cinema tip off), I would say we should be cautious and wait to see what he has to say about his search. There are more announcements to come, it is entirely possible there's no more Doctor Who in there but to write it off on the basis that he would have told us already doesn't hold any water at the moment, we simply lack the information. We just have to wait and see and hope.
We know he found other things - they were shown at MBW.
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Post by John Wall on Jan 26, 2019 11:53:40 GMT
One thing is certain, we are grateful for the return of the Web. Phil is our friend; he must be treated with respect and kindness. In answer to the original question, I suggest the Winchester. I agree. There have been some hurtful things said about PM - anybody remember the time of the Omnirumour when the, alleged, “pile” of recoveries were going to fund his retirement? He’s on our side and I don’t believe he’s made a penny from what he found.
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Post by Qasim Yusuf on Jan 26, 2019 13:38:22 GMT
I am certain Phil has more, its just a question of what and how many? The bigger question is will we ever get to see them. We have evidence from recent comedy finds that PM is prepared to sit on finds for at least 5 years before returning. Apart from the fact that there’s nothing other than vague statements and wishful thinking what’s the evidence? There’s also no evidence that he sits on things for years. He got to Jos in late 2011 but spent at least a year fighting red tape and Enemy and Web were back in the UK receiving TLC in early 2013. There may be a delay in announcing things but, as I’ve previously stated, he’s clearly working closely with the copyright holders - the two M&Ws demonstrated that. Didn't Phil announce that Basil Brush find in 2013 and sit on it until December?
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Post by John Wall on Jan 26, 2019 13:55:30 GMT
Apart from the fact that there’s nothing other than vague statements and wishful thinking what’s the evidence? There’s also no evidence that he sits on things for years. He got to Jos in late 2011 but spent at least a year fighting red tape and Enemy and Web were back in the UK receiving TLC in early 2013. There may be a delay in announcing things but, as I’ve previously stated, he’s clearly working closely with the copyright holders - the two M&Ws demonstrated that. Didn't Phil announce that Basil Brush find in 2013 and sit on it until December? I don’t know when it was announced. However, apart from Enemy and Web nothing was shown until MBW afaik. There was probably no interest in broadcasting it or releasing it on DVD so nothing happened.
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Post by richardwoods on Jan 26, 2019 15:45:45 GMT
I've mentioned the fact before that back in the late 90's, I contacted the BBC Treasure Hunt about good quality audio recordings my father made of the Charles Stidwall children's stories from the Home Service , later Radio 4 in the mid to late 1960's. These were recorded on 4 track Stellaphone (Phillips) reel to reel via a lead from FM at 1 7/8 ips. He recorded it religiously every week for me to listen to so there were I would estimate in excess of 40 episodes in excellent quality.
The guy I spoke to was initially very interested and promised to ring me back. No call was forthcoming however, so a week or so later I rang back and spoke to the guy again, he said that they had a few examples of Charles Sidwall stories in the archives and didn't want any more as they would never be rebroadcast. I was pretty shocked and when I asked him why the BBC wouldn't want something missing from the archive back, particularly in good quality, he said that unless it was professionally recorded at 15 ips they wouldn't be interested!
Being unaware at the time of organisations other than the BBC who might have been interested, to my subsequent great regret I sold my tapes to a collector at the National Vintage Audio Fair in the early 2000's who's parting shot after he had bought them was "I'll listen to them & if I like them I'll keep them if not I'll reuse the tapes.
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Post by scotttelfer on Jan 27, 2019 4:55:58 GMT
Frankly at this point I think it is silly to make any assumptions one way or the other. Unless you genuinely believe he scoured archives across the world and found absolutely nothing between late 2011 (the Jos haul) and early 2018 (the Sierra Leone cinema tip off), I would say we should be cautious and wait to see what he has to say about his search. There are more announcements to come, it is entirely possible there's no more Doctor Who in there but to write it off on the basis that he would have told us already doesn't hold any water at the moment, we simply lack the information. We just have to wait and see and hope.
We know he found other things - they were shown at MBW.
I know he has found other things and that there is still more to come, the problem is people demanding there can't be any more Doctor Who (or anything else) because he would have announced it already. He is currently in the process of revealing his finds and frankly people are being far too impatient. Just wait and see what he has found.
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Post by John Wall on Jan 27, 2019 9:35:12 GMT
We know he found other things - they were shown at MBW. I know he has found other things and that there is still more to come, the problem is people demanding there can't be any more Doctor Who (or anything else) because he would have announced it already. He is currently in the process of revealing his finds and frankly people are being far too impatient. Just wait and see what he has found.
As far as I can see he’s working with the copyright holders.
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