RWels
Member
Posts: 2,854
|
Post by RWels on Jan 20, 2019 22:56:34 GMT
I'd agree with the sentiment that any story that is getting an animation, such as Macra, must have low hopes of being recovered. When PM's search is concluded, I think all we'll get from then on is orphan episodes. Any story completions will be from serials missing very few episodes like Web of fear or Tenth Planet. We can kiss goodbye to the likes of Power of Fury being completed for example. I have to say, with absolutely no foundation whatsoever, that my guess would be there could be as many as 8-10 missing episodes in the hands of collectors, but we'll probably get to see under half that amount. Why do I think this?: We've already seen numerous example of episodes in private hands: I believe there are more in the hands of unwitting collectors, maybe 4-5. The other lot would be from hoarders: people like the person who stole WoF 3 who have dedicated a lot of time and energy into sourcing and tracking down missing material. I'm a pesimistic person but this is one area where I'm unusually optimistic, because I've dealt with people with rabid interests in the past who will stop at nothing to get something. What makes you think we will ever get them back, assuming for now that those numbers are realistic?
|
|
|
Post by richardwoods on Jan 20, 2019 23:52:48 GMT
Personally, while I accept that it's generally a good idea to pour cold water on some of the more wild speculation about recovered Who, l choose to wait until PM finishes his field work & see what if anything is recovered. Anything else is just more speculation IMHO.
To my mind, rather than evidence of non-recovery, I see the 10 minute animation of Wheel Episode 1 as more likely being a pointer towards a partial recovery of maybe one or two episodes more of the serial, but I could well be wrong. Without this, I just can't see what the point would be of making it as this sort of work takes considerable time & money
|
|
|
Post by zaqwilson on Jan 21, 2019 2:38:15 GMT
Trying not to read too much into PM statements as they are a rabbit hole, I keep thinking along a few lines.
PM said he would only reveal full serials, thus leaving the speculation door open to him possibly having an orphan episode or two. Also stating "Ties does not hold any missing episodes of dw..." PV said he knows of an episode or two in private collection (s)...speculated to be the final resting place of TP4 and DMP4 loaned to blue peter.... what if PV referee to PM's orphaned episode or two? Highly unlikley, but it crossed my mind.
PM said at one point he was contacted by a collector who wanted to discretely buy any dw me he had found to that point. Could this collector have others? They seem to have capital and connections.
Assuming the collector that pilfered Web 3 is different than the one who contacted pm, could this collector have others? Apparently they are connected enough to swipe Web 3 mid recovery.
I think there are more in private hands than is generally suspected. 8-10 doesn't sound too far fetched.
|
|
|
Post by lousingh on Jan 21, 2019 2:41:11 GMT
Whatever happens, I am grateful to everyone who has helped keep interest in the stories alive. They are why we have complete reconstructions, even more recovered episodes, and the animations.
I expect there will be more recoveries and returns. Until they turn up, I will enjoy what we have and be thankful to everyone who has made all of it available.
|
|
|
Post by martinjwills on Jan 21, 2019 8:39:19 GMT
Trying not to read too much into PM statements as they are a rabbit hole, I keep thinking along a few lines. "Ties does not hold any missing episodes of dw..." Nobody holds any missing episodes of Dr Who, and never have, because if they have them, they are not missing, they played on words just before the last reveal. So PMs statement is true even if his storage is full of film cans and a few Dr Who remember "Web of fear hasnt been returned complete". was said a few times in 2013
we didnt hear "Tiea doesnt hold any Dr Who episodes that are not in the BBC Archive".
|
|
|
Post by zaqwilson on Jan 21, 2019 16:14:52 GMT
“T.I.E.A. does not hold any missing episodes of the long-running Dr Who series… They are not missing but destroyed. The end.” <= Quote of the statement released.
|
|
|
Post by martinjwills on Jan 21, 2019 16:16:17 GMT
“T.I.E.A. does not hold any missing episodes of the long-running Dr Who series… They are not missing but destroyed. The end.” <= Quote of the statement released. Then a few weeks after that statement Enemy and web were anounced.
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Jan 21, 2019 19:30:41 GMT
“T.I.E.A. does not hold any missing episodes of the long-running Dr Who series… They are not missing but destroyed. The end.” <= Quote of the statement released. Then a few weeks after that statement Enemy and web were anounced. They were then held by the BBC!
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Jan 21, 2019 19:32:12 GMT
Personally, while I accept that it's generally a good idea to pour cold water on some of the more wild speculation about recovered Who, l choose to wait until PM finishes his field work & see what if anything is recovered. Anything else is just more speculation IMHO. To my mind, rather than evidence of non-recovery, I see the 10 minute animation of Wheel Episode 1 as more likely being a pointer towards a partial recovery of maybe one or two episodes more of the serial, but I could well be wrong. Without this, I just can't see what the point would be of making it as this sort of work takes considerable time & money I see the 10 minute animation as a precursor to animation of the four missing episodes.
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Jan 21, 2019 19:34:21 GMT
I'd agree with the sentiment that any story that is getting an animation, such as Macra, must have low hopes of being recovered. When PM's search is concluded, I think all we'll get from then on is orphan episodes. Any story completions will be from serials missing very few episodes like Web of fear or Tenth Planet. We can kiss goodbye to the likes of Power of Fury being completed for example. I have to say, with absolutely no foundation whatsoever, that my guess would be there could be as many as 8-10 missing episodes in the hands of collectors, but we'll probably get to see under half that amount. Why do I think this?: We've already seen numerous example of episodes in private hands: I believe there are more in the hands of unwitting collectors, maybe 4-5. The other lot would be from hoarders: people like the person who stole WoF 3 who have dedicated a lot of time and energy into sourcing and tracking down missing material. I'm a pesimistic person but this is one area where I'm unusually optimistic, because I've dealt with people with rabid interests in the past who will stop at nothing to get something. I don’t want to worry you but all six episodes of Power have been animated.
|
|
|
Post by zaqwilson on Jan 21, 2019 20:26:25 GMT
Power was animated? Hummm, I though Pat was walking a bit funny... I agree that wheel's short animation is odd, but I don't feel it has anything to do with a recovery. PM comments about tracing Snowman and wheel after being split from enemy and web are most likely a coincidence with wheel animation. PM is definitely hiding something with his vague statements.... whether its an ep or two or an empty sock drawer remains to be seen.
|
|
|
Post by martinjwills on Jan 21, 2019 20:47:22 GMT
Then a few weeks after that statement Enemy and web were anounced. They were then held by the BBC! I think they were copied to HD and the originals returned to PM,
|
|
|
Post by martinjwills on Jan 21, 2019 21:18:47 GMT
Quite a few of the returned episodes were sold/aquired at Boot/film Fairs in the 1980s, we dont know if all that were sold have turned up so far.
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Jan 21, 2019 21:55:28 GMT
They were then held by the BBC! I think they were copied to HD and the originals returned to PM, It’s more than five years ago but that’s not my recollection of the article in DWM. In any case why would PM want them? Eleven 16mm prints take up storage space, they’d have to be accessioned and periodically checked - that’s how archives work. There’s a definable annual cost which, although possibly not massive, would be best borne by the copyright holder.
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Jan 21, 2019 22:10:56 GMT
Power was animated? Hummm, I though Pat was walking a bit funny... I agree that wheel's short animation is odd, but I don't feel it has anything to do with a recovery. PM comments about tracing Snowman and wheel after being split from enemy and web are most likely a coincidence with wheel animation. PM is definitely hiding something with his vague statements.... whether its an ep or two or an empty sock drawer remains to be seen. There seemed to be a bit of a disagreement at MBW between a couple of the people involved in the Wheel 1 animation as to the future. What we’ve got is a bit of an oddball animation. I don’t mean that unkindly as the animation was, imho, very good. However, it wasn’t an abbreviated or condensed Episode 1 but a pretty good reconstruction of the first ten minutes. Wheel is a six part “big monster” story with two surviving episodes - I see it, even in that state, as a good candidate for animation. As to PM I’m afraid I don’t think he’s got any more DW - although I’d like to be proven wrong.
|
|