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Post by Richard Marple on Nov 23, 2018 12:39:21 GMT
Yet another "New Dr Who is crap" post.
Not true, so please do not put words in my mouth. I've enjoyed the majority of the new Who. It's just this season that I'm very disappointed with the quality of the scripts and I think it's very weak. As I said that's my opinion, which I'm entitled to. I don't speak for others.
Alan Same here, I was using the term new as in the current series rather than Doctor Who since 2005 in general, & the unwritten rule at all newly made episodes must be regarded as inferior for a few years. In my opinion the Jodie Whitaker stories have been quite good so far, certainly by the standards of the series since 2005.
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Post by Alan Jeffries on Nov 23, 2018 13:37:58 GMT
Not true, so please do not put words in my mouth. I've enjoyed the majority of the new Who. It's just this season that I'm very disappointed with the quality of the scripts and I think it's very weak. As I said that's my opinion, which I'm entitled to. I don't speak for others.
Alan Same here, I was using the term new as in the current series rather than Doctor Who since 2005 in general, & the unwritten rule at all newly made episodes must be regarded as inferior for a few years. In my opinion the Jodie Whitaker stories have been quite good so far, certainly by the standards of the series since 2005. Yes, it's a very subjective matter and for a series that has been running for such a long time it has ups and downs. A lot of the later Tom Baker stories are not that great, with bad scripts and poor acting. The latter Moffat series, to me, was not great, the 3 part Monk story being one example. And that was a quarter of the season. I just hoped that with a complete change of staff in front of and behind the camera, it would be a new beginning, and in that I was sorely disappointed. There has been not a single episode of this season I'm in a hurry to rewatch and I never thought I'd be saying this, as I've been watching since the Hartnell days, this season may be my last. And don't even get me onto the subject of the over use of the 'sonic!' LOL Alan
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Post by lousingh on Nov 24, 2018 21:20:10 GMT
Before I join the thread derailment about the new series, I want to remind everyone that the lead software developer of the company that animated "The Power of the Daleks" told us that they really wanted 12 months to do the entire serial to their satisfaction, bid for 9 months to push the envelope, and then were given 6 months. I think most people grossly underestimate how much time and money goes into a full animated reconstruction of the missing episodes, in spite of high quality recordings, telesnaps, film footage, extant clips, etc.
IMHO, restaging the episodes would be far easier and cheaper. However, I think the split here on how we would feel about it shows how problematic this would be. The target audience would largely be older fans of the original series. If I were contemplating recreating these episodes with actors basically walking through the scenes, this thread would make me thing twice.
As for the new season, for me this is like most of the new series: solid, but not great. I can think of individual episodes that I really liked and seasons that I liked overall, but because the "feel" of the series is seems "off", I don't get into it as much. Thus, I no longer evaluate the restarted series as my all-time favourite TV show than as a "show I like". I figure it's me -- IMHO, they have undermined the Doctor's character or the series' character too often for me to be that passionate about the new episodes anymore.
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Post by Timothy Austin on Nov 24, 2018 22:21:36 GMT
I am fully aware that animation takes a great deal of time. I do basic animations for YouTube myself, and I know full well by just doing basic short animations how time consuming it is. But I do believe it's possible to animate an entire missing story over the course of 9 - 12 months with a reasonable amount of animators. So it's not inconceivable they could release one missing/incomplete story a year. I think it's very practical.
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Post by scotttelfer on Nov 24, 2018 23:22:52 GMT
I am fully aware that animation takes a great deal of time. I do basic animations for YouTube myself, and I know full well by just doing basic short animations how time consuming it is. But I do believe it's possible to animate an entire missing story over the course of 9 - 12 months with a reasonable amount of animators. So it's not inconceivable they could release one missing/incomplete story a year. I think it's very practical.
In terms of the actual work it is possible, the problem is paying for that work.
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Post by samnurden on Nov 24, 2018 23:40:08 GMT
I am fully aware that animation takes a great deal of time. I do basic animations for YouTube myself, and I know full well by just doing basic short animations how time consuming it is. But I do believe it's possible to animate an entire missing story over the course of 9 - 12 months with a reasonable amount of animators. So it's not inconceivable they could release one missing/incomplete story a year. I think it's very practical.
In terms of the actual work it is possible, the problem is paying for that work.
Bingo. High cost + super niche audience + BBC = No. Although saying that, if they do it an episodeor a chunk here and there like they have been doing (Wheel In Space Episode 1 + Power of the daleks) We'll get there eventually. Maybe.
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Post by Patrick Coles on Nov 25, 2018 20:02:55 GMT
you should all know by now that you are not 'allowed' to voice any criticism of 'new who' without getting the obligatory 'rap on the knuckles' so you better watch what you think...! (to quote The Twilight Zone)
personally I'd rather watch classic Who than boring old BBC style Shakespeare any day
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Post by Alan Jeffries on Nov 25, 2018 23:19:01 GMT
you should all know by now that you are not 'allowed' to voice any criticism of 'new who' without getting the obligatory 'rap on the knuckles' so you better watch what you think...! (to quote The Twilight Zone) personally I'd rather watch classic Who than boring old BBC style Shakespeare any day Don't I know it. It's been going on forever in Who circles. Way back when in those days of Local Groups in the '80s and I was much more involved. I was once threatened (on two separate occasions by the same person) that he would write to DWAS and get me thrown out because I would not take it seriously.
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Post by lousingh on Nov 25, 2018 23:55:54 GMT
In terms of the actual work it is possible, the problem is paying for that work.
Bingo. High cost + super niche audience + BBC = No. Although saying that, if they do it an episodeor a chunk here and there like they have been doing (Wheel In Space Episode 1 + Power of the daleks) We'll get there eventually. Maybe. This is why I think the sales and positive reactions to the animation of "The Power of the Daleks" bodes well for the future. I can see a realistic shot at animated versions of "The Evil of the Daleks", "The Abominable Snowmen", and "The Wheel in Space".
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Post by lousingh on Nov 26, 2018 0:11:27 GMT
you should all know by now that you are not 'allowed' to voice any criticism of 'new who' without getting the obligatory 'rap on the knuckles' so you better watch what you think...! (to quote The Twilight Zone) personally I'd rather watch classic Who than boring old BBC style Shakespeare any day Don't I know it. It's been going on forever in Who circles. Way back when in those days of Local Groups in the '80s and I was much more involved. I was once threatened (on two separate occasions by the same person) that he would write to DWAS and get me thrown out because I would not take it seriously. Oh, man. In the US, DWFCA did not brook any criticism of JN-T through its publishing run, no matter how polite or accurate it was. (Predictably, the JN-T-bashing backlash was fierce and even more unfair.) In retaliation for a silly (in retrospect, overly harsh) JN-T era review a friend did with me, one person filled my workspace with bells (0x07) and his with deletes (0x7F). At least there were no death threats, unlike when I gave a negative review (in retrospect, overly generous) of ST:TNG in 1987.
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Post by samnurden on Nov 26, 2018 20:28:55 GMT
Bingo. High cost + super niche audience + BBC = No. Although saying that, if they do it an episodeor a chunk here and there like they have been doing (Wheel In Space Episode 1 + Power of the daleks) We'll get there eventually. Maybe. This is why I think the sales and positive reactions to the animation of "The Power of the Daleks" bodes well for the future. I can see a realistic shot at animated versions of "The Evil of the Daleks", "The Abominable Snowmen", and "The Wheel in Space". I did forget to mention, but another reason they may hold back somewhat is on the possible chance some of these turn up. Couldn't imagine pouring all that time and money into animating say... Power Of The Daleks, only for it to turn up. I can feel the money burning away from the thought alone.
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Post by Alan Jeffries on Nov 27, 2018 9:49:03 GMT
I guess the bottom line for animations is how many units do they think they can sell. Fans would lap them up, but that's only a tiny fraction of the available market. I can't imagine a scenario where the general public would buy a 'cartoon' in B&W that was on in the 1960's en masse. A hybrid of existing and animated episodes less so. They would be more inclined to binge watch Game of Thrones than old Who. We are a tiny niche in a small market. I'm not a great fan of the animation techniques that are used, but it would nice to fill those gaps. But frankly, I can't see it. Money talks. Profits need to be made.
Alan
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Post by Robert Lia on Nov 27, 2018 22:16:27 GMT
And the BBC would love to make more money off us fans, so sooner or later there will be more animations. That Wheel in Space clip that is being prepared is obviously being done for a reason other than to simply use it as an extra on a future DVD ?
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Post by Matthew Kurth on Nov 28, 2018 5:22:18 GMT
The problem with this idea is, who do you please? For me, I would be willing to watch recreations if they were done in B&W and there was a faithfulness to the feel of the original production (eg, no zoom lenses or crane shots, no adding large background crowds to scenes). But I also know that there are a lot of people who would find that boring and would want something optimized for a modern audience. And the more authentic you want it to seem, the more that will cost to achieve. The end result, I think, would be a product that satisfied no one.
I could make an exception for Feast of Steven though if the rest of DMP resurfaced. A remake of that would be interesting.
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Post by Charles Daniels on Nov 28, 2018 7:46:42 GMT
The problem with this idea is, who do you please? For me, I would be willing to watch recreations if they were done in B&W and there was a faithfulness to the feel of the original production (eg, no zoom lenses or crane shots, no adding large background crowds to scenes). But I also know that there are a lot of people who would find that boring and would want something optimized for a modern audience. And the more authentic you want it to seem, the more that will cost to achieve. The end result, I think, would be a product that satisfied no one. I could make an exception for Feast of Steven though if the rest of DMP resurfaced. A remake of that would be interesting. Maybe it depends on where you are coming from culturally - mentally. Examples, I love and produce electronic music, which is very often about remixing, editing, sampling, doing a cover. A realised long ago that a remix or a cover, however bad it is, doesn't destroy an existing original. So a bad remix or cover is more of a wasted opportunity than a tragedy or crime against music. I also enjoy live performances -- which obviously vary greatly, even with the same source material. So if they restaged Marco Polo or The Myth Makers or hell, 3 minutes of The Smugglers, hell yes, I'd watch it. And I'd go into it with an open mind. A straight, B&W, recreation following the original camera script with a realistic studio set up for the 1960s, would be my personal preference. But if they felt they needed it in 4K definition technicolour 3D smell-o-vision -- I'd watch that; realistically you want people to put on productions they feel are good and let them sell you on it.
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