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Post by charles drummel on Nov 13, 2018 14:43:02 GMT
Doug: The two Morecambe and Wise episodes were stated as found in the Sierra Leone cinema. Citizen James was found at Monaco Television. The other ones, I believe, are of unknown origin. The previous, apparently incomplete, version of the Basil Brush episode was recovered in Nigeria. If I understand correctly, the complete print's origin has not been stated.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Nov 13, 2018 15:10:53 GMT
Kaleidoscope found: 1. Steptoe and Son episode My Old Man's A Tory in private hands and got access to it. No. They didn't find it and they didn't have access to it. Kaleidoscope was also aware of "a sizeable amount of BBC comedy shows" in private hands but could not retrieve it at the time, but now it can: No, Kal can't. It's in a different private collection and Kal don't have access. Copyright holders do. Separate to the "booklet" list, Phil Morris found nine episodes in Sierra Leone in a movie theater. No. As Charles has pointed out above, the comedy material came from a variety of sources. Philip found a cut version of the Basil Brush episode back in 2013. The print returned to the BBC this year is (apart from FR tidies) uncut. Paul |
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Post by John Wall on Nov 13, 2018 16:28:23 GMT
This is all very complicated......
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Nov 14, 2018 4:52:12 GMT
OK, let me revise.
Kaleidoscope neither found nor got access to any of this.
One copy of Steptoe and Son episode My Old Man's A Tory remains in private hands, but the copyright holders (the BBC) have access to it.
Kaleidoscope described "a sizeable amount of BBC comedy shows" in private hands, but there is a different collection with "a sizeable amount of BBC comedy shows" and the copyright holders have access to that other collection. The exact titles will be made known later, but there is at least one episode of the Rag Trade in this accessible private collection.
Phil Morris found and returned ...
1. a second print of that same Steptoe and Son episode My Old Man's A Tory - source unknown
2. a different episode of The Rag Trade - source unknown
3. 1 episode of Citizen James - found at Monaco Television
4. Harry Worth 1 - source unknown
5. Harry Worth 2 - source unknown
6. Harry Worth 3 - source unknown - these are three consecutive episodes of Harry Worth
7. Morcambe and Wise 1 - Found in a cinema in Sierra Leone
8. Morcambe and Wise 2 - Found in a cinema in Sierra Leone
9. 1 episode of Basil Brush (with the Kinks). Phil Morris found this episode on two occasions: first, he found it in an edited format in Nigeria and revealed this in 2013; then, he found it in an unedited format from an unknown source and has revealed it now.
These were announced on the One Show and Phil will present some of this and talk about it at MBW.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Nov 14, 2018 5:00:49 GMT
It is interesting that from just these nine episodes, duplicate copies of at least two of them were found. In fact, a very poor quality recording of My Old Man's A Tory existed in the archives, so that's three copies of that one, I believe.
It seems hopeful to me that multiple copies of some of these finds were located.
Missing episodes of things can indeed exist out there in the world somewhere, such as at Monaco Television or in a cinema in Sierra Leone, so if someone makes the effort to go and search, missing episodes could indeed be located.
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Post by Charles Daniels on Nov 14, 2018 9:23:02 GMT
It is interesting that from just these nine episodes, duplicate copies of at least two of them were found. In fact, a very poor quality recording of My Old Man's A Tory existed in the archives, so that's three copies of that one, I believe. It seems hopeful to me that multiple copies of some of these finds were located. Missing episodes of things can indeed exist out there in the world somewhere, such as at Monaco Television or in a cinema in Sierra Leone, so if someone makes the effort to go and search, missing episodes could indeed be located. That's right! And there's no reason these things have to be found in far flung places like Monaco, there's no reason why they couldn't be sitting closer to home in say, Bournemouth. The 60s material is tricky, but the 70s material, maybe not quite as bad. My own experience suggests that hooking up with the right person who was an early adopter of Philips tape, and obviously kept them, or better yet, who switched over to Beta or VHS and stopped using the Philips altogether -- is the ideal dream situation. And I've found that situation more than once myself! I do think it's remarkable that so many duplicates were found from such a small sample size, but I guess there's always that factor of Sod's Law that comes into play. Shame they weren't all different examples. Must be like buses, nothing for ages, then 3 at once! |
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Post by charles drummel on Nov 14, 2018 13:56:22 GMT
I think you've reversed the Basil Brush finds. First Nigeria, edited. Then unknown, complete. |
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Nov 14, 2018 14:12:09 GMT
I think you've reversed the Basil Brush finds. First Nigeria, edited. Then unknown, complete. Oh yes, thank you. I got that backwards. I was still able to edit my post above, so I made the correction. |
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Post by Robert Mammone on Nov 15, 2018 7:05:40 GMT
Hi all, The BFI have today issued their press release for 'Missing Believed Wiped' at 25. I was at the very first one all those years ago, in NFT3. Who would have thought it would be going strong all these years later. From the BFI Press release: "The BFI celebrates Missing Believed Wiped (MBW)’s 25th birthday on 15 December at BFI Southbank with a treasure of television riches. Reflecting on the initiative’s successes from the last 25 years in tracking down and screening rediscovered ‘lost’ television classics. The 15 December event will present newly discovered material including top-quality music, comedy and variety titles as well as welcome repeats for much-requested items taking place across two sessions. We’re thrilled to announce the premiere of the much anticipated Doctor Who animated mini- episode based on the now lost first part of the 1968 Doctor Who story, 'The Wheel in Space', starring Patrick Troughton. We are delighted to be joined by a number of special guests including the Indiana Jones of lost archival television Philip Morris, who will be presenting some of the rare television gems he’s recently unearthed, including missing episodes of Morecambe and Wise, Sid James’s sitcom Citizen James and children’s television favourite Basil Brush including the only surviving live performance of The Kinks performing their hit Days. Pop star and songwriter Vince Hill looks back over his distinguished 60+ year career in music plus we also feature a rare performance by Aretha Franklin on British television." A big part if this event was made possible by recoveries from TIEA and Philip Morris. Philip returned 9 BBC comedy productions to the BBC Archive a few weeks ago. They are: The Morecambe and Wise Show - Series 1 - Episodes 5 & 7 Citizen James - The Day Out The Rag Trade - Baby Dolls The Basil Brush Show - Series 1 - Episode 3 Steptoe & Son - My Old Man's a Tory Harry Worth - Four's a Crush Harry Worth - Feet First Harry Worth - Melancholics Anonymous With the exception of the Steptoe & Son episode, these are the only know copies of these episodes and feature the cream of British television comedy from the 1960's including performances from Yootha Joyce, Hugh Lloyd, Sid James, Liz Fraser, Barbara Windsor and Reg Varney. Philip Morris of TIEA will be announcing further recoveries in the New Year. Paul Apologies if this has been asked and answered elsewhere, but what format were they returned in? |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Nov 15, 2018 10:25:39 GMT
Re the 'Harry Worth' series - There exists complete episodes (in various formats) of; 1 out of 10 from series one 5 out of 9 from series two 1 out of 10 from series three 5 out of 8 from series four Therefore 12 out of a possible 37 episodes are now known to still exist; ie. about one in three. The Harry Worth returns are very pleasing. I well-remember watching his shows in my childhood. Just looking at the three month sales listing I have for Enterprises from July-September 1972, Harry series were still being sold abroad at that time with 10 programmes from Series 7 going to Kenya and 8 programmes from Series 8 being sold to Zambia, so hos humour obviously translated well elsewhere. They list these sales as being Here's Harry, but I suspect that they were looking at Here's Harry (1960-65) and Harry Worth (1966-70) as being one long continual series. |
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Post by Tim Burrows on Nov 15, 2018 13:34:23 GMT
Re the 'Harry Worth' series - There exists complete episodes (in various formats) of; 1 out of 10 from series one 5 out of 9 from series two 1 out of 10 from series three 5 out of 8 from series four Therefore 12 out of a possible 37 episodes are now known to still exist; ie. about one in three. The Harry Worth returns are very pleasing. I well-remember watching his shows in my childhood. Just looking at the three month sales listing I have for Enterprises from July-September 1972, Harry series were still being sold abroad at that time with 10 programmes from Series 7 going to Kenya and 8 programmes from Series 8 being sold to Zambia, so hos humour obviously translated well elsewhere. They list these sales as being Here's Harry, but I suspect that they were looking at Here's Harry (1960-65) and Harry Worth (1966-70) as being one long continual series. Bahaha. Thanks Richard!  |
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Post by Tim Burrows on Nov 15, 2018 13:38:31 GMT
Could someone just confirm that the Harry Worth's are 16mm, not the 8mm ones as per a claim attributed to one George Rainey many moons ago? Thanks.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Nov 15, 2018 17:39:55 GMT
Could someone just confirm that the Harry Worth's are 16mm, not the 8mm ones as per a claim attributed to one George Rainey many moons ago? Thanks. Yes. They are 16mm film recordings. The only missing episode to be returned to the BBC Archive on 8mm was 'James Bond Where Are You?' by Mike Hogg if I recall correctly. Paul |
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Post by Tim Burrows on Nov 15, 2018 17:56:03 GMT
Could someone just confirm that the Harry Worth's are 16mm, not the 8mm ones as per a claim attributed to one George Rainey many moons ago? Thanks. Yes. They are 16mm film recordings. The only missing episode to turn up on 8mm was 'James Bond Where Are You?' returned by Mike Hogg if I recall correctly. Paul Smashing thanks. |
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Nov 15, 2018 17:56:12 GMT
Kaleidoscope described "a sizeable amount of BBC comedy shows" in private hands, but there is a different collection with "a sizeable amount of BBC comedy shows" and the copyright holders have access to that other collection. The exact titles will be made known later, but there is at least one episode of the Rag Trade in this accessible private collection. No. Kaleidoscope, in the booklet article for their dodgy DVD stated (according to an earlier poster) that they knew of this sizeable amount of comedy shows which included 'Steptoe and Son: My Old Man's a Tory'. There is no "different" collection. It's the same one, but it has changed hands and is now available for genuine copyright holders to access. Paul |
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