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Post by Qasim Yusuf on Nov 2, 2018 7:24:22 GMT
I heard that when Terry Nation wanted to introduce a new series on the Daleks called "The Destroyers" in America, he planed on bringing back the Space Security Service from The Daleks Masterplan and Mission to the Unknown. Is it possible that he could have had more prints made of Masterplan (or even Mission to the Unknown) to demonstrate what the show may have been like to the TV studio that he was pitching the idea to?
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Post by Richard Bignell on Nov 2, 2018 9:42:35 GMT
Hello Qasim,
This is a thought that comes up from time to time, but the simple answer is that Nation wouldn't have needed any prints of Mission to the Unknown or The Daleks' Master Plan in connection with his bid to produce a separate Dalek series.
Nation's idea was that the series would be made jointly with the BBC, so they weren't ever looking for a US producer, only a buyer. As such, they didn't require any Doctor Who/Dalek episodes to show the US networks. Terry Nation and Fred Alper's plan was to use the completed colour pilot to try to get a American stations interested in the idea. And don't forget, the two Dalek feature films had also been distributed in the US prior to this, so there had already been some exposure Stateside to the creatures. Of course, the BBC eventually pulled out of the co-production deal, but that was at the very last minute, so the whole thing collapsed before there was anything to show the network buyers.
Even if theoretically, they had wanted to show a potential buyer the Daleks in action, then that wouldn't have been an issue. Nation via his agent, Associated London Scripts, had previously purchased four episodes of 'The Dalek Invasion of Earth', so they could have used those, if required.
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Post by Qasim Yusuf on Nov 2, 2018 9:54:58 GMT
Hello Qasim, This is a thought that comes up from time to time, but the simple answer is that Nation wouldn't have needed any prints of Mission to the Unknown or The Daleks' Master Plan in connection with his bid to produce a separate Dalek series. Nation's idea was that the series would be made jointly with the BBC, so they weren't ever looking for a US producer, only a buyer. As such, they didn't require any Doctor Who/Dalek episodes to show the US networks. Terry Nation and Fred Alper's plan was to use the completed colour pilot to try to get a American stations interested in the idea. And don't forget, the two Dalek feature films had also been distributed in the US prior to this, so there had already been some exposure Stateside to the creatures. Of course, the BBC eventually pulled out of the co-production deal, but that was at the very last minute, so the whole thing collapsed before there was anything to show the network buyers. Even if theoretically, they had wanted to show a potential buyer the Daleks in action, then that wouldn't have been an issue. Nation via his agent, Associated London Scripts, had previously purchased four episodes of 'The Dalek Invasion of Earth', so they could have used those, if required. Thanks for explaining this. I guess it seems like the only way for us to ever have a chance of seeing DMP and MTTU is if the audition prints somehow resurface.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Nov 2, 2018 20:12:22 GMT
I guess it seems like the only way for us to ever have a chance of seeing DMP and MTTU is if the audition prints somehow resurface. To clarify: there wasn't a set of separate audition prints. All the countries that bought season 3 had auditioned and bought the series starting with season 1. They didn't need to audition it again. The ABC in Australia ordered the MTTU and DMP episodes from the BBC as they did with the rest of the season 3 serials when they were offered to them in 1966, and they went through the usual censorship and assessment process, but this wasn't an audition, which is an entirely different process and did not need to be done. The serial wasn't purchased though, so the prints presumably went back to the BBC (and I believe that the three eps of DMP that exist today are from that set). And a non-sale to the ABC meant the other Commonwealth countries that also bought season 3 couldn't acquire it, so there'd be no other prints struck. So there were never any "audition prints" of MTTU or DMP.
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Post by charles drummel on Nov 2, 2018 20:33:17 GMT
I guess it seems like the only way for us to ever have a chance of seeing DMP and MTTU is if the audition prints somehow resurface. The serial wasn't purchased though, so the prints presumably went back to the BBC (and I believe that the three eps of DMP that exist today are from that set). This is what I have always assumed as well. Is there evidence to support it, or is it simply the most likely explanation? Is there anything about the three films that suggest that they're all from the same source (such as in the leaders, copy A/B markings, etc)?
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Post by Robert Lia on Nov 2, 2018 20:44:31 GMT
I think that the question of audition prints being sent would have been to the USA / US Networks / and or US studios (if necessary), not to the Commonwealth Country's already buying Dr. Who. In the case of DMP as Australia and the rest of the British Commonwealth passed they could have used the prints returned by BBC Sydney instead of striking new tele recordings.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Nov 2, 2018 20:47:54 GMT
The serial wasn't purchased though, so the prints presumably went back to the BBC (and I believe that the three eps of DMP that exist today are from that set). This is what I have always assumed as well. Is there evidence to support it, or is it simply the most likely explanation? Is there anything about the three films that suggest that they're all from the same source (such as in the leaders, copy A/B markings, etc)? Master Plan eps 5 and 10 were found in 1983 along with a b/w print of an episode of "Warship", and we do know that a b/w print of that naval series was auditioned by the ABC in 1974. So if that audition print found its way back to the UK, then there's a very good chance the Master Plan prints did too. And since there's no cause why any other prints would exist, then it's logical that the extant prints are the ones that were sent to Australia. Read more thoughts on that HERE
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Post by Jon Preddle on Nov 2, 2018 20:52:26 GMT
I think that the question of audition prints being sent would have been to the USA / US Networks / and or US studios (if necessary), not to the Commonwealth Country's already buying Dr. Who. In the case of DMP as Australia and the rest of the British Commonwealth passed they could have used the prints returned by BBC Sydney instead of striking new tele recordings. Any new countries being offered Who would have been offered (and undertaken auditions) from season 1, episode 1, not with a 12-part story from the middle of season 3! And besides, after failures to sell the series in Europe in 1967/68, and with only limited sales to Spanish and Arabic countries, the BBC wasn't interested in selling the series outside the Commonwealth.
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Post by Robert Lia on Nov 2, 2018 21:04:45 GMT
My assumption was that if they wanted only "Dalek" episodes for the proposed Dalek Co Production then why not send them the un used episodes of DMP as no one bought them. That's assuming any prints were shown to US Executives at all. After all they had the ability to see the Peter Cushing movies to see the Daleks
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Post by Richard Bignell on Nov 2, 2018 21:37:05 GMT
My assumption was that if they wanted only "Dalek" episodes for the proposed Dalek Co Production then why not send them the un used episodes of DMP as no one bought them. That's assuming any prints were shown to US Executives at all. After all they had the ability to see the Peter Cushing movies to see the Daleks The BBC weren't looking for a US buyer, Nation and Alper were - and as I mentioned above, Nation already had access to four film prints of The Dalek Invasion of Earth if he needed them.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Nov 2, 2018 21:41:55 GMT
My assumption was that if they wanted only "Dalek" episodes for the proposed Dalek Co Production then why not send them the un used episodes of DMP as no one bought them. That's assuming any prints were shown to US Executives at all. After all they had the ability to see the Peter Cushing movies to see the Daleks Even if this were likely (I doubt it!) the BBC would only ever need to provide one or two sample episodes, not the full 12-parter (especially since the Daleks don't appear much in a lot of them). And only the first Cushing film had a theatrical distribution in the States, the second only was only ever shown on TV. But even then, "executives" would not have had easy access to the first film, since the exclusive rights were owned by a private company. As Richard points out above, there was no need for any "executives" to even see episodes or the films.
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Post by Robert Lia on Nov 2, 2018 21:53:28 GMT
Good point. And there was that redundant print of the above mentioned Dalek episode of that turned up in the USA in the late 70's. So no reason for them to need to see any more. My other obviously faulty logic for sending a few of the DMP episodes would be that they were more recent and had the film Daleks in some of th
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Post by Timothy Austin on Nov 2, 2018 22:09:23 GMT
The chances of getting more episodes of 'The Daleks Masterplan' back from anywhere are ridiculously slim, and yet, three episodes of this epic 12 parter have been recovered...from within The U.K. The reality is that any further episodes/prints of 'The Daleks Masterplan' being out there somewhere, is likely with private collectors in the U.K. Most of the episodes were probably junked and destroyed back in the mid seventies. So at best a few episodes were saved and retrieved. At best I would suggest there may be only a couple more 'Dalek Masterplan' episodes out there undiscovered. Having 3 episodes already, we may well already have all surviving episodes. We are extremely lucky to even have those!
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Post by Qasim Yusuf on Nov 3, 2018 12:00:58 GMT
I know it's highly unlikely but has anyone ever actually asked Terry Nation's estate if he had any missing Dalek episodes?
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Post by scotttelfer on Nov 3, 2018 15:12:16 GMT
I know it's highly unlikely but has anyone ever actually asked Terry Nation's estate if he had any missing Dalek episodes?
Somebody will have asked, and presumably if they did hold anything they would have tried to make money off it by now.
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