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Post by Charles Daniels on Dec 18, 2018 9:30:48 GMT
Rob. That sounds about right... no Space Pirates and no DMP - with the exception that possibly there was also mention that the Feast of Steven was recovered? It's all so long ago! 😂 The Feast of Steven is the point you should stop listening to it. It's gone sadly.
Just a query here, as I am not sure of the source. But I believe that both Paul Vanezis and Phil Morris have opened up the door slightly for the theoretical possibility that Feast of Steven may be a more complicated story than we've previously assumed? Not to say that I have any confidence that it's sitting in a shed in New Zealand or anything, but that there might be some additional data and detail which could add a sentence or two into an updated version of Wiped?
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Post by Alex Weidmann on Dec 18, 2018 17:08:19 GMT
Does anyone know whether the WiS mini-episode was a condensed version of episode one; or just the first 10 minutes of episode one?
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 18, 2018 17:32:09 GMT
The Feast of Steven is the point you should stop listening to it. It's gone sadly.
Just a query here, as I am not sure of the source. But I believe that both Paul Vanezis and Phil Morris have opened up the door slightly for the theoretical possibility that Feast of Steven may be a more complicated story than we've previously assumed? Not to say that I have any confidence that it's sitting in a shed in New Zealand or anything, but that there might be some additional data and detail which could add a sentence or two into an updated version of Wiped?
As far as I am aware there hasn't been any comment on The Feast of Steven. Every bit of evidence we have suggests that not only did the BBC not make a copy but took several steps to ensure that one wouldn't be made by accident.
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Post by Scot Ferre on Dec 18, 2018 18:24:48 GMT
Does anyone know whether the WiS mini-episode was a condensed version of episode one; or just the first 10 minutes of episode one? Condensed, going by reports.
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Post by Ralph Rose on Dec 19, 2018 9:59:08 GMT
Just a query here, as I am not sure of the source. But I believe that both Paul Vanezis and Phil Morris have opened up the door slightly for the theoretical possibility that Feast of Steven may be a more complicated story than we've previously assumed? Not to say that I have any confidence that it's sitting in a shed in New Zealand or anything, but that there might be some additional data and detail which could add a sentence or two into an updated version of Wiped?
As far as I am aware there hasn't been any comment on The Feast of Steven. Every bit of evidence we have suggests that not only did the BBC not make a copy but took several steps to ensure that one wouldn't be made by accident. It was mentioned back on the now defunct Restoration team website forum. I remember the debate between the RT team members for and against the idea of a telerecording. However it's been so long ago, I do not remember who was for and who was against the idea.
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Post by Alex Weidmann on Dec 19, 2018 11:37:46 GMT
What form does the Britbox reconstruction take? It's mentioned in the Wikipedia entry for "Wheel In Space", and was apparently released last year. Presumably it has no connection to the animated mini-episode?
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 19, 2018 12:43:11 GMT
What form does the Britbox reconstruction take? It's mentioned in the Wikipedia entry for "Wheel In Space", and was apparently released last year. Presumably it has no connection to the animated mini-episode?
Telesnap reconstruction with no clips (due to licencing issues). The images are of a higher quality than previous reconstructions but reviews weren't favourable.
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Post by Charles Daniels on Dec 20, 2018 5:36:13 GMT
Just a query here, as I am not sure of the source. But I believe that both Paul Vanezis and Phil Morris have opened up the door slightly for the theoretical possibility that Feast of Steven may be a more complicated story than we've previously assumed? Not to say that I have any confidence that it's sitting in a shed in New Zealand or anything, but that there might be some additional data and detail which could add a sentence or two into an updated version of Wiped? As far as I am aware there hasn't been any comment on The Feast of Steven. Every bit of evidence we have suggests that not only did the BBC not make a copy but took several steps to ensure that one wouldn't be made by accident. Well I know that there was no specific order, known to exist in the records, for it to be telerecorded. And I know that the tape was wiped. Did they take any other steps?
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Post by Richard Bignell on Dec 20, 2018 8:28:18 GMT
I don't think so. If you didn't want a film recording made, you just didn't order one. I don't think it was any more complicated than that.
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Post by Charles Daniels on Dec 20, 2018 9:20:23 GMT
I don't think so. If you didn't want a film recording made, you just didn't order one. I don't think it was any more complicated than that. Hello Richard, do we know if we have a full record for what was and what wasn't telerecorded that day? Or is this the sole episode of Doctor Who that doesn't have an attached telerecording order? What I'm trying to assess is - How was it determined that no telerecording was ordered. Is this a case of absence of evidence (the order may have existed but has never been located) Or is it a case where the relevant records have certainly been identified, and it's not there? Thanks!
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Post by Qasim Yusuf on Dec 20, 2018 11:27:34 GMT
Surely if the pilot episode was telerecorded, there is a chance that Feast of Steven could have been as well?
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Post by Charles Daniels on Dec 20, 2018 11:35:57 GMT
Surely if the pilot episode was telerecorded, there is a chance that Feast of Steven could have been as well? The pilot was telerecorded at the request of Sydney Newman so he could review it. I think? So that is a very different set of circumstances.
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 20, 2018 12:40:12 GMT
I don't think so. If you didn't want a film recording made, you just didn't order one. I don't think it was any more complicated than that. Hello Richard, do we know if we have a full record for what was and what wasn't telerecorded that day? Or is this the sole episode of Doctor Who that doesn't have an attached telerecording order? What I'm trying to assess is - How was it determined that no telerecording was ordered. Is this a case of absence of evidence (the order may have existed but has never been located) Or is it a case where the relevant records have certainly been identified, and it's not there? Thanks! BBC Enterprises ordered a telerecording be made of every serial to date. This included every "serial" from Series 3 as well as new higher quality "stored field" copies of the first two series. This order included The Daleks' Master Plan which according to their records was an 11 part serial. The Feast of Steven, although produced and broadcast in the middle of The Daleks' Master Plan was considered a separate entity in internal documents knowing that it wasn't intended to be sold alongside the rest. It's hard to see how The Feast of Steven would have ended up being recorded if it was being considered a one off episode to be ignored rather than an episode in a larger serial to be ignored. The most outlandish theory I've seen suggests there was a suppressed field copy ordered that was replaced once stored field became available, but there has been no evidence to suggest anything past The Chase exists in this format.
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Post by John Wall on Dec 20, 2018 12:41:34 GMT
Surely if the pilot episode was telerecorded, there is a chance that Feast of Steven could have been as well? The pilot was telerecorded at the request of Sydney Newman so he could review it. I think? So that is a very different set of circumstances. Otherwise he would have had to tie up a 2” machine.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Dec 20, 2018 14:09:28 GMT
I don't think so. If you didn't want a film recording made, you just didn't order one. I don't think it was any more complicated than that. Hello Richard, do we know if we have a full record for what was and what wasn't telerecorded that day? Or is this the sole episode of Doctor Who that doesn't have an attached telerecording order? What I'm trying to assess is - How was it determined that no telerecording was ordered. Is this a case of absence of evidence (the order may have existed but has never been located) Or is it a case where the relevant records have certainly been identified, and it's not there? Thanks! Some film recording orders survive in their respective production files, but not all. In the case of The Daleks' Master Plan, the production files were broken up into four separate three-episode folders. Whilst the files for 1-3, 4-6 and 10-12 survive, the file covering Episodes 7-9 is lost. However, we do know certain things. We know (confirmed by people who worked there) that the film recording department had to have an individual order for each programme transferred. So, no block-booking and the episode is film recorded by accident. We know that five weeks after DMP finished its transmission on the BBC, it was being offered to ABC as just an 11-part series, so Enterprises had evidently had made the decision right from the start that The Feast of Steven wasn't going to be offered as part of the story. This backed-up by the production office decision that Episode 6 deliberately doesn't end with a 'Next Episode: The Feast of Steven' caption but 'Next Episode: Volcano', so it was only ever going to be marketed and sold as an 11-parter. That also tallies with Ian Levine's recollection that when he finally got into Enterprises in the spring of 1978 and went through their film recording card index system, there was a card made up for every episode other than The Feast of Steven. As BBC Enterprises were the ones ordering and paying for the film recordings to be made, so there would have been no purpose in them placing an order for an episode they were never going to sell. The only other possibility is that it was done when Enterprises placed a new order for the old episodes to be re-transferred in 1967 as a stored-field recordings. I still think that's pretty unlikely though. Enterprises would have again had to pay out for the new transfers to be done, so I think they would have been very careful not to have spent money getting something transferred that they weren't going to be selling. The likely scenario would have been that they would have gone through their record cards for each episode and made a list of the reference numbers for the master videotapes that they were recorded on, which was then passed onto the film recording department and Engineering, who held all the tapes. Bear in mind DMP wouldn't have been neatly kept together as a block of 12 tapes in Engineering. The episodes would be spread out over the entire VT library, dependant on what tape was free at the time of recording or editing. In this case, Episode 1 ended up on Tape #29715 whilst Episode 12 was on Tape #30939. So it wouldn't be a case of Enterprises saying that they wanted DMP retransferred and then someone went along to a shelf and took down all 12 episodes in one go, including 'The Feast of Steven' by mistake. The entire system worked on the number physically allocated to the tape. Again, given that Ian Levine said that there was no record card for The Feast of Steven, there's no reason why Enterprises would have had any details on file as to what tape number the episode was originally stored on. If they didn't have that information, then the possibility of the episode being accidentally taken out of Engineering for transfer becomes very unlikely.
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