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Post by zaqwilson on Sept 13, 2018 20:55:33 GMT
I stand corrected then. I know I read the bit about a repeat some where but I cant remember where I read it off the top of my head. I do know that when Jon Pertwee episodes aired in the Los Angeles Market starting in July 1975 we had one repeat of each story same with the Tom Baker episodes that aired starting in August 1978 we had like 5 runs of those story's. I remember reading the same about rebroadcast rights with sales. Its been a while, but within the past 5 years. I defer to the more learned Dr Who researchers on this panel. Goodness! I always figured if I read it somewhere it had to be true....  |
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Post by Robert Lia on Sept 13, 2018 21:02:21 GMT
I cant remember if I read it in Doctor Who Weekly / Monthly / Magazine back in the day or in an issue of Dreamwatch Bulletin (DWB), Nothing at the End of the Lane (NATEOTL) or even in one of the editions of Wiped. But I no I read it some where cause I remember it.
I found it here but I think I've seen it else where but it also says if a repeat was negotiated at the time of purchase
The fee also covered the rights expiry period. The rights expiry period was essentially the time needed for the broadcaster to acquire, prepare, schedule and screen a programme. And given that the acquisition period (see below) sometimes took months - or years even - five years was sufficient if not generous. (And if it had been negotiated, also allowed for a repeat screening.)
BROADWCAST
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Post by Jon Preddle on Sept 14, 2018 4:38:07 GMT
The fee also covered the rights expiry period. The rights expiry period was essentially the time needed for the broadcaster to acquire, prepare, schedule and screen a programme. And given that the acquisition period (see below) sometimes took months - or years even - five years was sufficient if not generous. (And if it had been negotiated, also allowed for a repeat screening.) Ah, understand now. The BBC's sales rights period was five or seven years (certainly 5 years for season 1 and 2, then seven for season 3 onwards I believe), but a TV station's purchase gave them usually 2-3 years in which to screen the programmes, so on that basis yes there would be an allowance for a time to hold onto the negs in case of need to supply replacements due to loss or damage -- otherwise source them from a set of already in circulation elsewhere. |
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Post by Chris Wilkinson on Sept 14, 2018 8:29:19 GMT
The prints sent to Zambia were surely from the same set as the ones returned from Australia in 1975. Given that the deal to screen the final three Season 6 serials was made at the last moment, it's surely probable that the prints were kept by the BBC for a short time before being sent back out to Zambia. In their possession, they would have been able to assess the quality of the prints (which were good enough for broadcast). Could the decision to destroy the Space Pirates negatives have been made on that basis, factoring in the impending expiry of the screening rights? In that way, the timeframe for the destruction of the negatives for The Space Pirates would be at the end of 1975 / start of 1976 with the final Zambian set of prints being 'destroyed' shortly after broadcast. I assume that the ambiguity regarding the fate of these prints suggests that the certificate of destruction for these episodes either cannot be located or no longer exists (or was never issued?).
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Post by stephen macpherson on Sept 14, 2018 9:57:50 GMT
"The Space Pirates" was transmitted in the UK from 8 March - 12 April 1969. Does that mean that the BBC sales rights period for the serial expired at the latest April 1976 (based on a 7 year rights period)? Hence the very last minute quick Zambian sale.
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Post by gbaker on Sept 14, 2018 12:42:08 GMT
Phil Morris commented in an interview(recorded at a convention and put online) that the Zambian copy of The Space Pirates had been held quite late in Zambia. I don't have a link to the interview. By 1976 most other countries had moved on to colour Pertwee and Baker episodes. Zambia airing b/w Troughtons in 1976 was considered "late". It would be interesting to know exactly how late "late" was, and how far the paper trail went. Perhaps Phil Morris will reveal all one day, but the very remote possibility that the prints were not destroyed either here or in Zambia is tantalising...…….. |
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Post by Richard Molesworth on Sept 14, 2018 17:05:22 GMT
The prints sent to Zambia were surely from the same set as the ones returned from Australia in 1975. Given that the deal to screen the final three Season 6 serials was made at the last moment, it's surely probable that the prints were kept by the BBC for a short time before being sent back out to Zambia. In their possession, they would have been able to assess the quality of the prints (which were good enough for broadcast). Could the decision to destroy the Space Pirates negatives have been made on that basis, factoring in the impending expiry of the screening rights? In that way, the timeframe for the destruction of the negatives for The Space Pirates would be at the end of 1975 / start of 1976 with the final Zambian set of prints being 'destroyed' shortly after broadcast. I assume that the ambiguity regarding the fate of these prints suggests that the certificate of destruction for these episodes either cannot be located or no longer exists (or was never issued?). I suspect the returned ABC prints were never checked or assessed - they were just thrown out, possibly within days / weeks of them arriving back in the UK. I don't think anyone considered the possibility of them being of use in the future. However, Ian Levine recalls that the prints/negs of 'The Space Pirates' were junked by BBC Enterprises in 1974, a year before the ABC films were returned, so BBC Enterprises must have got the Zambian films from somewhere. We know that four Troughton stories went from Hong Kong -> Singapore -> Nigeria, with the last movement in 1974. It wouldn't surprise me if the Zambian copy of 'The Space Pirates' was ex- Hong Kong / Singapore prints as well. As a side note, no certificates of destruction for *any* episodes from *any* overseas TV station have ever been found, IIRC. There's no paper trail to follow. Regards, Richard |
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Post by Jon Preddle on Sept 14, 2018 20:22:35 GMT
From Hong Kong -> Singapore, or from Gibraltar - which is geographically 'closer' to Zambia.
The Australian prints were sent back to the BBC specifically for the purposes of being junked, but it's possible that the sale to Zambia was completed at the same time as the arrival of the films from down under, and they were redirected ... Okay that's an extreme scenario, but can't be totally ruled out.
But on balance, my money is on Zambia getting Gibraltar's prints. The HK/Singapore ones also went back to the BBC, they were the ones that Enterprises had in 1976.
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Post by Robert Lia on Sept 14, 2018 20:35:38 GMT
Out of curiosity. Does any one know if there are any left over BBC Sales contracts from the 60's or 70's still around. Im not talking about one for Dr. Who but the generic form that was used. it would be interesting to see what it looked like back then. Obviously they would type in the name of he show and the relevant story infromation
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Post by Jon Preddle on Sept 14, 2018 21:06:15 GMT
Out of curiosity. Does any one know if there are any left over BBC Sales contracts from the 60's or 70's still around. Im not talking about one for Dr. Who but the generic form that was used. it would be interesting to see what it looked like back then. Obviously they would type in the name of he show and the relevant story infromation Not contracts, but some of the invoices do. The BBC would offer a programme usually by letter/memo. After the audition/assessment process, the TV station would agree to buy, sending some form of "Agreement to Purchase" document, which gives the period to screen (ie three years). The BBC would eventually send an invoice (possibly attached to the film prints) which had the amount to be paid, and when. But of the ones I've seen there is nothing in them that stipulates anything about destruction or return. That was never a term and condition of sale/purchase. |
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Post by Robert Lia on Sept 14, 2018 21:10:46 GMT
OK then taking it one step further. Don't suppose any of the Time Life Films paper work relating to the sales of Jon Pertwee episodes to US TV stations between 1972-78 ever surfaced ?
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Post by Jon Preddle on Sept 14, 2018 21:15:00 GMT
OK then taking it one step further. Don't suppose any of the Time Life Films paper work relating to the sales of Jon Pertwee episodes to US TV stations between 1972-78 ever surfaced ? Not that I've seen. The Library of Congress in DC has a 'tv/film' reading room, and they did have a HUGE file of Time-Life stuff, but there was absolutely nothing in it relating to sales or distribution. It was mainly all publicity and advertising. (Nothing for DW sadly.) And I know that the Red White and Who authors followed up with and interviewed various ex-TL staff, and they had no luck tracking down any old files or records. |
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Post by Robert Lia on Sept 14, 2018 21:20:18 GMT
I did not think so but I figured why not ask. As they were the first color distributor of Dr. Who it would have been interesting to see what there paperwork said regarding the NTSC video tapes, were they to be returned, send on to the next broadcaster or wiped ?
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Post by Jon Preddle on Sept 14, 2018 21:30:10 GMT
T-L had a set of masters, and the US stations would have got U-Matic copies. When T-L closed down their distribution operation in 1981, the masters were probably disposed of, or possibly sent to BBC's office in Toronto. Some of the NTSC tapes that were found and returned to the BBC in the early 1980s may have been the T-L masters.
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Post by Robert Lia on Sept 14, 2018 21:39:10 GMT
Now I am surprised to hear that color video tape was distributed on the U-Matic format? I know that they had color tapes recovered that were 2 inch quads previously but this is the first I have ever herd of U-Matic format used for broadcast.
I know KCET had dubbed a copy of The Curse of Peladon onto U-Matic that eventually ended up with Ian Levine.
But did not the NTSC episode's of The Mutants that were recovered from the PBS station in St. Louis come back on NTSC 2 inch quads ?
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