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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Jun 3, 2018 21:03:24 GMT
One or two missing eps or one or two collectors with some missing eps? One or two episodes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2018 21:04:40 GMT
Basic revelation in the interview is something a lot of us suspected: There are collectors with missing episodes of Doctor Who. However, Paul is quick to say that the number is really only one, maybe two ... something really low. But it was a direct confirmation that they exist. And, as stated in the interview, these collectors should be thanked. The films are in good condition still. The collectors are not the type of people to pressure ... and I for one don't want to. The only message I'd want to tell them is "thank you" for their passion of collecting and knowledge of keeping things safe. If I knew that one of those 'only one, maybe two' is an episode of The Space Pirates I'd be doing cartwheels.
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Post by Chris Wilkinson on Jun 3, 2018 22:02:59 GMT
One or two missing eps or one or two collectors with some missing eps? One or two episodes. There are only two episodes that are likely out there in the hands of private collectors, discounting anomalies, that remain unaccounted for:
The Daleks' Master Plan #4, which was on film and present in the 1976 BBC audit (located at the Film Library) and was perhaps removed just like the other remaining episodes had been removed previously - #2, #5, #10 must have been removed prior to 1976 since they were not audited.
The other episode is The Power of the Daleks #6 which existed on 35mm film and was likely located at the Film Library again, though it is not present in any of the 1970s audits and is thought to have been junked earlier in the 1970s along with the rest of the serial.
Whatever happened to these two episodes has never been confirmed with solid evidence. Other episodes from other serials could be in the hands of private collectors, such as the surprising Galaxy 4 return in 2011, but there is no clear indication as to which ones they could be.
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Post by Mike Biggs on Jun 3, 2018 22:25:16 GMT
There are only two episodes that are likely out there in the hands of private collectors, discounting anomalies, that remain unaccounted for:
The Daleks' Master Plan #4, which was on film and present in the 1976 BBC audit (located at the Film Library) and was perhaps removed just like the other remaining episodes had been removed previously - #2, #5, #10 must have been removed prior to 1976 since they were not audited.
The other episode is The Power of the Daleks #6 which existed on 35mm film and was likely located at the Film Library again, though it is not present in any of the 1970s audits and is thought to have been junked earlier in the 1970s along with the rest of the serial.
Whatever happened to these two episodes has never been confirmed with solid evidence. Other episodes from other serials could be in the hands of private collectors, such as the surprising Galaxy 4 return in 2011, but there is no clear indication as to which ones they could be.
Personally, I would have thought that the only likely episode is Web 3. Otherwise anything else is possible, with the two you mention fairly high on the list.
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Post by Chris Wilkinson on Jun 3, 2018 22:37:31 GMT
There are only two episodes that are likely out there in the hands of private collectors, discounting anomalies, that remain unaccounted for:
The Daleks' Master Plan #4, which was on film and present in the 1976 BBC audit (located at the Film Library) and was perhaps removed just like the other remaining episodes had been removed previously - #2, #5, #10 must have been removed prior to 1976 since they were not audited.
The other episode is The Power of the Daleks #6 which existed on 35mm film and was likely located at the Film Library again, though it is not present in any of the 1970s audits and is thought to have been junked earlier in the 1970s along with the rest of the serial.
Whatever happened to these two episodes has never been confirmed with solid evidence. Other episodes from other serials could be in the hands of private collectors, such as the surprising Galaxy 4 return in 2011, but there is no clear indication as to which ones they could be.
Personally, I would have thought that the only likely episode is Web 3. Otherwise anything else is possible, with the two you mention fairly high on the list.
Ah yes, I forgot the obvious one!
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Jun 3, 2018 22:48:31 GMT
I know it's easy to immediately think about DMP 4, Tenth Planet 4, Power 6, Web 3, etc. But in reality this existing lost episode(s) could be ANYTHING.
I wouldn't rule out any story.
It could be another episode of Reign of Terror, those certainly pop up more often than not. Perhaps another episode of Moonbase. Or maybe it's something we've not seen like Savages or Fury. They're all just as likely as DMP or Web of Fear.
Whatever it is, I'm rest assured that it is safe.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Jun 3, 2018 22:54:32 GMT
An incredible revelation and one that's been a long time coming. This news makes me very,very happy even though I can't see them at the moment. Thank you so much Paul Vanezis and thank you so much to those collectors who have preserved these treasures for us.
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Post by George D on Jun 4, 2018 1:36:53 GMT
We have drawn the conclusion of only 1-2 episodes. when he said collectors in plural. A Different interpretation is that he is talking multiple collectors with 1-2 episodes a piece.
What i found the most saddening is he claimed we lost invasion, evil of the daleks, macra terror and others by 15 minutes.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 2:53:29 GMT
Agree with George D. I have a feeling that one or two episodes is a diplomatic way of saying 'a few' 😊 Let's hope so!
Good to hear Paul mentioning that he did a trip to Singapore recently. Thank you, Paul! Singapore definately warrants this kind of 110% effort. Be interesting to find out one day what did indeed transpire with the remainder of Who prints.
Can't wait to find out from what TV show the recently discovered non-Who negative prints are. Gives me hope that some Doctor Who 16mm A/B roll film negatives of existing episodes (or non-existing) may be discovered. This find would disprove the general assumption that they are gone for good. These are definately harder to find than missing Who episodes in Africa - even POTD or EOTD! 😉
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 2:55:56 GMT
We have drawn the conclusion of only 1-2 episodes. when he said collectors in plural. A Different interpretation is that he is talking multiple collectors with 1-2 episodes a piece. What i found the most saddening is he claimed we lost invasion, evil of the daleks, macra terror and others by 15 minutes. Months. If minutes we would all go hang ourselves with despair, lol.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Jun 4, 2018 5:58:15 GMT
I have the overall sense that people are taking this news quite well! No tough arguments on the message boards, just curious questions here and there. There's frustration, yes, but mostly people are happy to have confirmation that episodes are safe. In some way these stories aren't really "missing" at all. I don't know what you'd call them though. Unseen episodes?
I see no harm in people taking their guess at what it could be.
I'm going to go with something unique for my guess. I'd say it's an unseen episode of "Underwater Menace".
But, as I said in my previous post, it really could be anything. I am certainly happy by this news, but realize that I can't expect to see it today or tomorrow ... or even in a year. Perhaps not for a very long time if that. Paul's confirmation is NOT a confirmation that it will come back .... just confirmation that it is safe.
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Post by Chris Wilkinson on Jun 4, 2018 9:30:55 GMT
Even though I've suggested the two episodes above, I agree that anything could be kicking around. The reason why I state the Galaxy 4 print to be surprising is shown in the attached graph - it was the first episode of the serial to be recovered, but was done so significantly after most other first episodes were returned.
The attached graph shows a clear correlation between the 1975 Australia returns and most of the film print recoveries we've had outside the UK. It is assumed that Mission to the Unknown and The Daleks' Master Plan was returned in 1967 at the same time The Reign of Terror was sent to New Zealand. The blue bars indicate the existence of film prints, the grey bars indicate that at least one episode existed but was unknown at the time, and the yellow bars indicate that the serial has had at least one known episode recovery.
It doesn't show any data for other countries, but it does give an indication as to which serials are likelier to have further returns. Anything where the blue bar ends at 1976 was destroyed in Australia and almost certainly does not survive. The Celestial Toymaker #4 was an anomaly and we're very lucky to have it! Using this as a guide, it would appear that likely future recoveries would fall more into the Troughton era rather than the Hartnell - however, this is an example from just one country. Attachments:
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
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Post by Richard Develyn on Jun 4, 2018 10:25:59 GMT
I have the overall sense that people are taking this news quite well! No tough arguments on the message boards, just curious questions here and there. There's frustration, yes, but mostly people are happy to have confirmation that episodes are safe. In some way these stories aren't really "missing" at all. I don't know what you'd call them though. Unseen episodes? I see no harm in people taking their guess at what it could be. I'm going to go with something unique for my guess. I'd say it's an unseen episode of "Underwater Menace". But, as I said in my previous post, it really could be anything. I am certainly happy by this news, but realize that I can't expect to see it today or tomorrow ... or even in a year. Perhaps not for a very long time if that. Paul's confirmation is NOT a confirmation that it will come back .... just confirmation that it is safe. I will never understand why they don't give them back to the BBC so we can all enjoy them. Contrast how we've been celebrating the life and generosity of Graham Strong over the last few weeks. Why can't everyone be like him? Richard
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Post by Luke Sherlaw on Jun 4, 2018 13:26:59 GMT
It's also such a disservice to the cast members.
Deborah Watling said she'd had loved to have seen Fury again to see her final serial, and now she's unfortunately departed us. If someone is hoarding any episodes of Fury, they are never going to get the chance to make her wish happen, but they could have done, assuming they held copies before her death.
The same goes for any other cast member really, why not let them see their work before they too might die? Let the elder fans among us see these episodes before they die. You'll never get the chance to makes these dreams come true if you wait too long.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Jun 4, 2018 15:25:46 GMT
I will never understand why they don't give them back to the BBC so we can all enjoy them. Contrast how we've been celebrating the life and generosity of Graham Strong over the last few weeks. Why can't everyone be like him? Richard We're asking them to sacrifice their passion for our passion. That is a lot to ask for someone who's entire life has been essentially film collection. As amazing as tens of thousands of fans being happy is (to us) ... that's not really an incentive to give up property. If anything, it might even be a deterrent! If I was a collector leery of giving up my property, thousands of fans would be scary. Who's to say that other fans of other shows won't starts hounding at me? It'd mean a higher risk of my name being released by accident despite requesting to be anonymous. It would mean loosing something unique and special about my collection. The whole situation would create an uncomfortable atmosphere. Especially if people start to accuse the collector of hoarding and being in the wrong. Who wants to deal with that? If a mob of people want to accuse me of decades of doing bad, then I wouldn't give a damn about anything they said. Paul's right: They've kept the films safe. They've kept them from being truly 'missing' ... if they hadn't obtained them decades ago then they wouldn't even exist. And keeping up a friendship with them akin to the friendship with Terry Burnett and Graham Strong may mean something one day. And that does mean we can't expect them to be like Graham Strong and Terry Burnett. They made their own decision their own way, and we need to give this collector(s) the same amount of freedom.
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