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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 20:06:31 GMT
I certainly believe there are hoarders, just not sure what they may, or may not, have. You only have to look at what private collectors have handed in before to get an idea... DMP episodes, the 1975 Australia returns. Nothing more unusual than those candidates. No wonder they like the 'power' trip of holding onto such significant episodes.
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Post by John Wall on May 17, 2018 23:13:50 GMT
I certainly believe there are hoarders, just not sure what they may, or may not, have. You only have to look at what private collectors have handed in before to get an idea... DMP episodes, the 1975 Australia returns. Nothing more unusual than those candidates. No wonder they like the 'power' trip of holding onto such significant episodes. None of those three were recognised as missing/important by those who had them.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 2:15:48 GMT
You only have to look at what private collectors have handed in before to get an idea... DMP episodes, the 1975 Australia returns. Nothing more unusual than those candidates. No wonder they like the 'power' trip of holding onto such significant episodes. None of those three were recognised as missing/important by those who had them. Thankfully, which probably helped with the chance of their return. But in response to your not being sure what they may, or may not have, the Australia 75 returns and the DMP episodes are examples of what the private collectors are likely holding, based on those previous returns. There is a feeling among some ME fans that the episodes in private hands are significant, and for that very reason the private collectors aren't going to part with them any time soon. This clip at 06:00 is a fine example of the frustration ME hunters must feel from knowing what programmes or episodes the private collectors are holding onto. I get the awful feeling they're talking about Doctor Who: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGxRBOjfZCc
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Post by Chris Wilkinson on May 18, 2018 2:43:08 GMT
I certainly believe there are hoarders, just not sure what they may, or may not, have. You only have to look at what private collectors have handed in before to get an idea... DMP episodes, the 1975 Australia returns. Nothing more unusual than those candidates. No wonder they like the 'power' trip of holding onto such significant episodes. Without doubt, the Australia batch of 1975 have proven the most bountiful for missing episode returns. One of the most intriguing things I've discovered is that the Australia 1975 returns to London align with the serials that have returned only orphan episodes, yet the 1976 batch destroyed by the ABC have returned no episodes whatsoever. This suggests that the people who pinched the odd episode here and there were certainly based in Britain. 1975 seems to be the key year. If anyone knows of who was in control of disposing of returned film prints sent to BBC Ealing in that year (aside from Pamela Nash - who most certainly wouldn't be sneaking the episodes out), then we will certainly be closer to more recoveries.
These returns are highly indicative of further missing episodes being recovered:
Galaxy 4, The Underwater Menace, The Moonbase, The Faceless Ones, The Evil of the Daleks and The Abominable Snowmen were all part of the Australia 1975 returns - all of which have orphaned or individual episode returns. The Tenth Planet, The Ice Warriors, and The Invasion were almost certainly returned in their entirety, having been returned to the BBC Film Library where certain episodes were removed for various reasons (Blue Peter, audition prints etc.) and became lost. The Celestial Toymaker was likely preserved in error, or could not be located in time for sending the shipment to London.
Based solely on the Australian returns, if we were to extrapolate this trend to the whole missing episode recovery process, I'm afraid to say that we will never get any episodes of the following serials: Marco Polo, The Crusade, The Massacre, The Celestial Toymaker, The Savages, The Highlanders, The Macra Terror, Fury from the Deep and The Wheel in Space.
However, the serials that could return orphan episodes in the future are: Galaxy 4, The Myth Makers, The Smugglers, The Power of the Daleks, The Underwater Menace, The Moonbase, The Faceless Ones, The Evil of the Daleks, The Abominable Snowmen, The Web of Fear and The Space Pirates.
The Reign of Terror, Mission to the Unknown and The Daleks' Master Plan all remain understandable anomalies in this system (The Reign of Terror having been sent to New Zealand, and the Dalek serials having been returned way before 1975).
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 3:53:20 GMT
From previous discussion on this it's thought that from this 1975 batch of returns there might still be the odd missing episodes, or an already existing episode or two in private hands: missingepisodes.proboards.com/thread/7782?page=14#198And before 1975? I don't know which Doctor Who Magazine issue it was, but in one interview, William Russell recalled his encountering a BBC employee brazenly pushing a wheelbarrow full of BBC films they'd helped themselves to that were presumably going to be junked anyway. What these episodes were we don't know. But his reckoning from this was that these condemned episodes that employees were helping themselves to must be 'out there'.
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Post by Mike Biggs on May 18, 2018 10:23:19 GMT
You only have to look at what private collectors have handed in before to get an idea... DMP episodes, the 1975 Australia returns. Nothing more unusual than those candidates. No wonder they like the 'power' trip of holding onto such significant episodes. Without doubt, the Australia batch of 1975 have proven the most bountiful for missing episode returns. One of the most intriguing things I've discovered is that the Australia 1975 returns to London align with the serials that have returned only orphan episodes, yet the 1976 batch destroyed by the ABC have returned no episodes whatsoever. This suggests that the people who pinched the odd episode here and there were certainly based in Britain. 1975 seems to be the key year. If anyone knows of who was in control of disposing of returned film prints sent to BBC Ealing in that year (aside from Pamela Nash - who most certainly wouldn't be sneaking the episodes out), then we will certainly be closer to more recoveries.
These returns are highly indicative of further missing episodes being recovered:
Galaxy 4, The Underwater Menace, The Moonbase, The Faceless Ones, The Evil of the Daleks and The Abominable Snowmen were all part of the Australia 1975 returns - all of which have orphaned or individual episode returns. The Tenth Planet, The Ice Warriors, and The Invasion were almost certainly returned in their entirety, having been returned to the BBC Film Library where certain episodes were removed for various reasons (Blue Peter, audition prints etc.) and became lost. The Celestial Toymaker was likely preserved in error, or could not be located in time for sending the shipment to London.
Based solely on the Australian returns, if we were to extrapolate this trend to the whole missing episode recovery process, I'm afraid to say that we will never get any episodes of the following serials: Marco Polo, The Crusade, The Massacre, The Celestial Toymaker, The Savages, The Highlanders, The Macra Terror, Fury from the Deep and The Wheel in Space.
However, the serials that could return orphan episodes in the future are: Galaxy 4, The Myth Makers, The Smugglers, The Power of the Daleks, The Underwater Menace, The Moonbase, The Faceless Ones, The Evil of the Daleks, The Abominable Snowmen, The Web of Fear and The Space Pirates.
The Reign of Terror, Mission to the Unknown and The Daleks' Master Plan all remain understandable anomalies in this system (The Reign of Terror having been sent to New Zealand, and the Dalek serials having been returned way before 1975).
Your first paragraph isn't entirely accurate. The episode of The Lion was found in New Zealand and was rescued from a bunch sent to the tip (one of over 300 films rescued in that one case). There is no reason to suppose that similar things didn't happen in Australia.
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Post by Richard Marple on May 18, 2018 12:19:15 GMT
Supposedly the final episode of The Celestial Toymaker survived because it was called The Final Test & accidentally filed under sport as someone in the archives thought it was a cricket match.
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Post by Robbie Moubert on May 18, 2018 18:52:14 GMT
he was obviously approached by someone who requested this particular episode, knowing it saw the introduction of a major character. A Colonel actually...
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on May 18, 2018 19:03:35 GMT
he was obviously approached by someone who requested this particular episode, knowing it saw the introduction of a major character. A Colonel actually... Boom Boom!
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Post by Luke Sherlaw on May 18, 2018 20:25:52 GMT
he was obviously approached by someone who requested this particular episode, knowing it saw the introduction of a major character. A Colonel actually... Bravo sir, bravo.
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Post by brianfretwell on May 19, 2018 10:46:56 GMT
I certainly believe there are hoarders, just not sure what they may, or may not, have. I'm sure some don't even know what they have themselves. If you hoard too much you can forget what you have and where it is. Especially if they inherit from another hoarder.
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Post by Chris Wilkinson on May 19, 2018 11:22:18 GMT
Without doubt, the Australia batch of 1975 have proven the most bountiful for missing episode returns. One of the most intriguing things I've discovered is that the Australia 1975 returns to London align with the serials that have returned only orphan episodes, yet the 1976 batch destroyed by the ABC have returned no episodes whatsoever. This suggests that the people who pinched the odd episode here and there were certainly based in Britain. 1975 seems to be the key year. If anyone knows of who was in control of disposing of returned film prints sent to BBC Ealing in that year (aside from Pamela Nash - who most certainly wouldn't be sneaking the episodes out), then we will certainly be closer to more recoveries.
These returns are highly indicative of further missing episodes being recovered:
Galaxy 4, The Underwater Menace, The Moonbase, The Faceless Ones, The Evil of the Daleks and The Abominable Snowmen were all part of the Australia 1975 returns - all of which have orphaned or individual episode returns. The Tenth Planet, The Ice Warriors, and The Invasion were almost certainly returned in their entirety, having been returned to the BBC Film Library where certain episodes were removed for various reasons (Blue Peter, audition prints etc.) and became lost. The Celestial Toymaker was likely preserved in error, or could not be located in time for sending the shipment to London.
Based solely on the Australian returns, if we were to extrapolate this trend to the whole missing episode recovery process, I'm afraid to say that we will never get any episodes of the following serials: Marco Polo, The Crusade, The Massacre, The Celestial Toymaker, The Savages, The Highlanders, The Macra Terror, Fury from the Deep and The Wheel in Space.
However, the serials that could return orphan episodes in the future are: Galaxy 4, The Myth Makers, The Smugglers, The Power of the Daleks, The Underwater Menace, The Moonbase, The Faceless Ones, The Evil of the Daleks, The Abominable Snowmen, The Web of Fear and The Space Pirates.
The Reign of Terror, Mission to the Unknown and The Daleks' Master Plan all remain understandable anomalies in this system (The Reign of Terror having been sent to New Zealand, and the Dalek serials having been returned way before 1975).
Your first paragraph isn't entirely accurate. The episode of The Lion was found in New Zealand and was rescued from a bunch sent to the tip (one of over 300 films rescued in that one case). There is no reason to suppose that similar things didn't happen in Australia. Solely in terms of employees at the BBC pinching episodes, the first paragraph is accurate. The only thing I forgot was that The Faceless Ones #1 was also of Australian origin having been returned to the ABC in 1978 - which to me doesn't make much sense. It's fair to say that The Faceless Ones was returned as a complete set, or mostly complete with the first episode withheld. This is the one and only example of a 'pincher' in Australia. Every other act of pinching episodes has occurred in Britain.
New Zealand is a different story. 'The Lion' was recovered, rather than pinched, and there are no examples of any 'pinchers' having taken episodes there - mostly because nearly every serial was either sent to Singapore or promptly back to the BBC. The prospect of finding anything else in New Zealand, aside from the landfill sites, is next to nothing.
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George D
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Post by George D on May 19, 2018 15:12:10 GMT
Other boxes showed reels that were marked as Doctor Who with dates written on them that corresponded to the repeat dates for Evil of the Daleks. The tapes were viewed, but they had been recorded over with episodes of The Forsyte Saga from the 1968 repeat. As for the quality, Steve and Paul managed to play part of the Space Pirates episode, but the quality was said to be very poor. Since the wrong content was in the Box in curious if the other tape were all played to see what they may have in the boxes.
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George D
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Post by George D on May 19, 2018 15:22:31 GMT
he was obviously approached by someone who requested this particular episode, knowing it saw the introduction of a major character. A Colonel actually... I don't want to go there Reason being your assumption is based on the thief being someone having access to all 12 films and stealing one. The way Phil told the story is that they managed to hide all but 2. So the only one who would have access to attempt that would be someone on Phil team. The station manager only found 2 dr who films ( I assume the second was a dupe) While web 3 is important for introducing the brigadier, it isn't an exciting episode. Has a lot of flashbacks and other padding
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Post by John Wall on May 19, 2018 18:18:37 GMT
I don't want to go there Reason being your assumption is based on the thief being someone having access to all 12 films and stealing one. The way Phil told the story is that they managed to hide all but 2. So the only one who would have access to attempt that would be someone on Phil team. The station manager only found 2 dr who films ( I assume the second was a dupe) While web 3 is important for introducing the brigadier, it isn't an exciting episode. Has a lot of flashbacks and other padding Sounds like another PM story....
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