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Post by Ant Harvison - WIPED NEWS on Jan 28, 2018 20:09:31 GMT
You'd think the BBC would be the best route to return material, but are they really? After hearing that BBC Worldwide allowed all seven episodes of Marco Polo to be junked rather than returned from Nigeria - in 1997 - I, frankly, am disgusted with the corporation and of the opinion that they don't know what the hell they are doing. On one hand they were flagging up the search for lost episodes; on the other, letting probably the only remaining copies of lost episodes be destroyed. It's shameful.
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jan 28, 2018 22:28:38 GMT
You'd think the BBC would be the best route to return material, but are they really? After hearing that BBC Worldwide allowed all seven episodes of Marco Polo to be junked rather than returned from Nigeria - in 1997 - I, frankly, am disgusted with the corporation and of the opinion that they don't know what the hell they are doing. On one hand they were flagging up the search for lost episodes; on the other, letting probably the only remaining copies of lost episodes be destroyed. It's shameful. This is the second time I hear this, but can anyone tell me this story including a reliable source for it? It IS a bit odd that this would have happened AFTER the return of the Tomb of the Cybermen, apparently that was around 1991.
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Post by Ant Harvison - WIPED NEWS on Jan 29, 2018 0:19:01 GMT
Richard Molesworth covers it in the second edition of his book, Wiped. Over at Gallifrey Base, he was certain of the fact, having seen the fax ordering the destruction (IIRC). The thread's still up so you should definitely take a look. It's absolutely heartbreaking.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Jan 29, 2018 18:06:02 GMT
Richard Molesworth covers it in the second edition of his book, Wiped. Over at Gallifrey Base, he was certain of the fact, having seen the fax ordering the destruction (IIRC). The thread's still up so you should definitely take a look. It's absolutely heartbreaking. Not sure if I believe that...you would have thought Phillip Morris would have flagged this up at some point as it's news to me! Something as unbelievable as that surely would have been in the public domain at some point in the intervening years?
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jan 29, 2018 18:09:37 GMT
Ironic that the fax itself was properly archived then.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Jan 29, 2018 18:33:24 GMT
Ironic that the fax itself was properly archived then. Oh man,this just gets sadder and sadder.I'm heartbroken.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Jan 29, 2018 23:34:56 GMT
You'd think the BBC would be the best route to return material, but are they really? After hearing that BBC Worldwide allowed all seven episodes of Marco Polo to be junked rather than returned from Nigeria - in 1997 - I, frankly, am disgusted with the corporation and of the opinion that they don't know what the hell they are doing. On one hand they were flagging up the search for lost episodes; on the other, letting probably the only remaining copies of lost episodes be destroyed. It's shameful. Well, you have two BBC's here. One is the corporation, the other is BBC Worldwide. The BBC wouldn't have ordered anything to be destroyed, it would have been BBC Worldwide. Sadly, it is unlikely it would have been a senior person responsible for the catalogue, but most likely a temporary and/or junior employee just doing what they always did back then, which was to advise foreign stations to dispose of the material they have or return it as per their contracts. What you are dealing with is people who don't understand about missing programmes. They will have assumed that the material was a recent sale, out of contract and nothing important because if it was sold, "we must still have a copy". In 2011 I spoke to a catalogue person at BBC Worldwide who told me that would still be the advice. That policy has now been changed after the intervention of Sue Kerr. But there is no point in blaming the BBC. In the late 1990's I arranged for some colour NTSC masters of The Possessed, Nana and The Black Tulip to be returned to the BBC Archive from BBC Worldwide America. The Nana tapes (which were missing episodes at the time) were returned and archived. The others weren't sent. I only discovered this five years later and by a miracle the tapes were still in Burbank. I got them sent over, but they arrived when a lot of wiping of Quad tapes was happening. Yes, you've guessed it, the only colour copies of those two series were wiped due to a miscommunication. Cock ups do happen. We try and prevent that where we can and also to put things right when all is seemingly lost. It was me that suggested we get the Rentaghost copies sent to Pebble Mill from BBC Worldwide (where we were trying to make the video masters for Tim Beddows) because only then did we discover that many had been wiped in the early 1990's. Not even Worldwide knew. They were still selling the series. The safest way to protect missing content is to walk into the reception at the BBC Archive at Perivale and ask to speak to an archivist, explaining that your film is the only known copy. Just make sure that you get a receipt! Better still, make an appointment. Paul
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 10:40:19 GMT
Before we all feel heart broken for the recent wiping of Marco Polo (yes it's bad), let's keep a little optimism for the fact that a good number of copies of this serial were sent abroad. So, if one set of prints were tragically destroyed as late as 97, there is still a higher chance of finding another set somewhere else, if not already found (fingers crossed). Had this been the only remaining set of prints of Power of the Daleks (which has never been proven to have been retuned from Singapore), then I would definately lose all hope of ever seeing this serial returned. There are other examples of programmes of which relatively few copies were made. Let's have faith and hope that even those have escaped being junked recently, in error.
I feel that this information about the fax is actually promising, since it informs us that missing stories, such as Marco Polo, can still be out there to this day, somewhere in Africa (as was proven to be the case with EOTW and WOF).
Predictions for ME annoucements in 2018? Probably highly likely to be none, as in 2017. But this does not mean something good is coming our way, one day, when we are least expecting it.
Thanks to all who are tirelessly searching, and have tirelessly searched in the past, and made all the difference to how much Doctor Who material is available today.
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jan 31, 2018 14:07:18 GMT
Well, you have two BBC's here. One is the corporation, the other is BBC Worldwide. The BBC wouldn't have ordered anything to be destroyed, it would have been BBC Worldwide. Sadly, it is unlikely it would have been a senior person responsible for the catalogue, but most likely a temporary and/or junior employee just doing what they always did back then, which was to advise foreign stations to dispose of the material they have or return it as per their contracts. What you are dealing with is people who don't understand about missing programmes. They will have assumed that the material was a recent sale, out of contract and nothing important because if it was sold, "we must still have a copy". In 2011 I spoke to a catalogue person at BBC Worldwide who told me that would still be the advice. That policy has now been changed after the intervention of Sue Kerr. But there is no point in blaming the BBC. In the late 1990's I arranged for some colour NTSC masters of The Possessed, Nana and The Black Tulip to be returned to the BBC Archive from BBC Worldwide America. The Nana tapes (which were missing episodes at the time) were returned and archived. The others weren't sent. I only discovered this five years later and by a miracle the tapes were still in Burbank. I got them sent over, but they arrived when a lot of wiping of Quad tapes was happening. Yes, you've guessed it, the only colour copies of those two series were wiped due to a miscommunication. Cock ups do happen. We try and prevent that where we can and also to put things right when all is seemingly lost. It was me that suggested we get the Rentaghost copies sent to Pebble Mill from BBC Worldwide (where we were trying to make the video masters for Tim Beddows) because only then did we discover that many had been wiped in the early 1990's. Not even Worldwide knew. They were still selling the series. The safest way to protect missing content is to walk into the reception at the BBC Archive at Perivale and ask to speak to an archivist, explaining that your film is the only known copy. Just make sure that you get a receipt! Better still, make an appointment. Paul A thought that struck me, was it ever checked if they did in fact follow up and destroy them?
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Post by Ant Harvison - WIPED NEWS on Jan 31, 2018 15:22:26 GMT
It's a good question. Another avenue would be finding out if they dumped unwanted film cans in a landfill site, and if so, where that site is. Perhaps the arid conditions could preserve the material. That is, of course, if Phil Morris hasn't already been there and dug them up. As he keeps his cards so close to his chest, we've no idea. That lack of dialogue in itself can't be helping coordinate the search for missing episodes.
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jan 31, 2018 21:01:35 GMT
It's a good question. Another avenue would be finding out if they dumped unwanted film cans in a landfill site, and if so, where that site is. Perhaps the arid conditions could preserve the material. That is, of course, if Phil Morris hasn't already been there and dug them up. As he keeps his cards so close to his chest, we've no idea. That lack of dialogue in itself can't be helping coordinate the search for missing episodes. Yeah, or sometimes unwanted film was used for "leaders". I believe this is how some 1948 Show survived (in the UK). Since they took the effort to ask it does not bode well, but you never know.
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Feb 2, 2018 14:02:43 GMT
I'm not a member on GB and registration is going slow; could someone perhaps repeat the story here so that at least I know what was missed? "Just" Marco Polo? Or also Reign and Crusades?
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RWels
Member
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Post by RWels on Feb 23, 2018 16:36:41 GMT
I'm not a member on GB and registration is going slow; could someone perhaps repeat the story here so that at least I know what was missed? "Just" Marco Polo? Or also Reign and Crusades? The answer to my own question: All of the above, so series 1 and 2 would have been complete.
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Sofia Fox
Member
Favourite Missing Stories: Marco Polo, The Crusade, The Myth Makers, The Macra Terror, and Evil.
Posts: 75
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Post by Sofia Fox on Feb 23, 2018 22:23:23 GMT
That hurts...bad. Two complete seasons of William Hartnell but decided not to apparently
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RWels
Member
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Post by RWels on Feb 23, 2018 22:48:33 GMT
11 episodes. On the other hand, if they had been recovered, it would now be a footnote in whoistory that they were returned after a lucky fax message, and we'd all be taking it for granted that casualties only fell in seasons 3-6. That's how the mind generally works after all.
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