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Post by williammcgregor on Aug 9, 2017 21:04:03 GMT
TV Brain says
Doctor Who
The Deadly Assassin
13.11.1976 Episode 3 The only known copy was recorded on a domestic video format (e.g. VHS, Beta, Phillips 1500)
The BFI holds this episode on
2-Inch Quadruplex - Video-TX Date: 1976-11-13 C-779011
Am I right in thinking that 2-Inch Quadruplex is either the original format or at least a significant up grade on the current domestic
video format above.
Is this already known about? or would someone like to investigate this further and let us know the outcome please?
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Post by Steven Sigel on Aug 9, 2017 22:07:52 GMT
I think the master tape was damaged and they had to replace a small section from a lower quality copy (I forget the details - Paul Vanezis or Richard Molesworth would know) .. But the idea that the only existing copy is on a domestic video format is nonsense.
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Post by PAUL WOOD on Aug 9, 2017 22:08:23 GMT
I'm guessing it's the edited broadcast master from the 1977 repeat?
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Post by Alastair Fleming on Aug 9, 2017 22:13:25 GMT
I think what they mean is that the only complete copy is the domestic recording - as the original was edited following complaints about the freeze frame cliffhanger of the Doctor's head being held underwater.
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Post by Ronnie McDevitt on Aug 10, 2017 10:45:40 GMT
Jan Vincent Rudzki had (I think) a U matic complete copy which was used to complete the episode following the edit although someone like Richard Bignell will be able to provide more details.
He was also responsible for the return of the lengthy sequence from the Four Hundred Dawns episode so we have him to be grateful for that also.
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Post by Arthur Chim on Aug 10, 2017 11:06:50 GMT
From the Restoration Team website for the Deadly Assassin DVD release:
"The original cliffhanger to part three, consisting of a shot of the Doctor's head being forcibly held under water, was only ever seen on the first transmission. Following a complaint by the National Viewers' and Listeners' Association, the ending was trimmed down to reduce what was thought to be an unreasonably traumatic moment for younger viewers. No broadcast quality copy of the original version exists, but off-air video recordings were made on U-matic by BBC Enterprises and on Philips 1500 by Ian Levine, which he later dubbed to U-matic. Copies of both of these U-matic tapes have been used to restore the ending to its former glory, by combing the two to help reduce noise. Approximately six seconds was missing from the end of the episode (of which approximately half was a freeze frame) and none of this exists in the recap at the start of episode four. There is also soundtrack with unique music cues in the missing section, which provided Mark Ayres with a challenging job. By very careful matching of positioning and grading, Peter Crocker was able to simply cut the off-air recording back onto the end of the master and when combined with Mark Ayres' audio restoration, the join is almost imperceptible."
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Post by ianphillips on Aug 10, 2017 17:37:27 GMT
From the Restoration Team website for the Deadly Assassin DVD release: "The original cliffhanger to part three, consisting of a shot of the Doctor's head being forcibly held under water, was only ever seen on the first transmission. Following a complaint by the National Viewers' and Listeners' Association, the ending was trimmed down to reduce what was thought to be an unreasonably traumatic moment for younger viewers. No broadcast quality copy of the original version exists, but off-air video recordings were made on U-matic by BBC Enterprises and on Philips 1500 by Ian Levine, which he later dubbed to U-matic. Copies of both of these U-matic tapes have been used to restore the ending to its former glory, by combing the two to help reduce noise. Approximately six seconds was missing from the end of the episode (of which approximately half was a freeze frame) and none of this exists in the recap at the start of episode four. There is also soundtrack with unique music cues in the missing section, which provided Mark Ayres with a challenging job. By very careful matching of positioning and grading, Peter Crocker was able to simply cut the off-air recording back onto the end of the master and when combined with Mark Ayres' audio restoration, the join is almost imperceptible." Wait, are there six seconds missing from the dvd release period or is it just 6 seconds that are missing from the master but that exist on a home recording? |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Aug 10, 2017 21:35:19 GMT
The latter.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Aug 16, 2017 22:03:34 GMT
Wait, are there six seconds missing from the dvd release period or is it just 6 seconds that are missing from the master but that exist on a home recording? Basically, the Kaleidoscope info is correct (this time). The National Film Archive have the original tape. This is the same actual tape that was used for the original broadcast and the repeat. After the complaints, the end of the original TX tape was re-edited to remove the offending material. We haven't repaired the original tape, but we have used Ian Levines off-air recording to restore the missing section. Due to the shortness of the missing section and the movement in the frame, it was possible to restore the section seamlessly. Paul |
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Post by Marie Griffiths on Apr 26, 2024 1:04:47 GMT
Wait, are there six seconds missing from the dvd release period or is it just 6 seconds that are missing from the master but that exist on a home recording? Basically, the Kaleidoscope info is correct (this time). The National Film Archive have the original tape. This is the same actual tape that was used for the original broadcast and the repeat. After the complaints, the end of the original TX tape was re-edited to remove the offending material. We haven't repaired the original tape, but we have used Ian Levines off-air recording to restore the missing section. Due to the shortness of the missing section and the movement in the frame, it was possible to restore the section seamlessly. Paul Thanks for your efforts but this isn't on the version of Deadly Assassin on iPlayer at the moment. Why have they still got the Mary Whitehouse cut?
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Apr 26, 2024 8:23:23 GMT
Basically, the Kaleidoscope info is correct (this time). The National Film Archive have the original tape. This is the same actual tape that was used for the original broadcast and the repeat. After the complaints, the end of the original TX tape was re-edited to remove the offending material. We haven't repaired the original tape, but we have used Ian Levines off-air recording to restore the missing section. Due to the shortness of the missing section and the movement in the frame, it was possible to restore the section seamlessly. Paul Thanks for your efforts but this isn't on the version of Deadly Assassin on iPlayer at the moment. Why have they still got the Mary Whitehouse cut?
That is the copy in the BBC Archive, which is the material that is mostly sourced for the iPlayer. Paul |
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Post by markperry on Apr 27, 2024 6:28:36 GMT
If any what countries either PAL/NTSC did broadcast the uncensored episode prior to been edited?
Obviously not Australia which was locally dealt the dredded A rating and skipped but was the story sent back or (say) locally archived?
And presumably the 1987 broadcast was the censored version?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2024 16:25:19 GMT
If any what countries either PAL/NTSC did broadcast the uncensored episode prior to been edited? Obviously not Australia which was locally dealt the dredded A rating and skipped but was the story sent back or (say) locally archived? And presumably the 1987 broadcast was the censored version? Canada and the United States. Ian's off-air U-Matic tape was made by copying Tom Lundie's Betamax recording. Lundie is the same American fam that provided off-air color copies of many 3rd Doctor episodes. Lundie gave all his Betamax tapes to Ian, who them made U-Matic tapes for the BBC to have in their collection. He still haves the original Betamax tapes to this day. |
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Post by Jon Preddle on Apr 27, 2024 19:29:01 GMT
If any what countries either PAL/NTSC did broadcast the uncensored episode prior to been edited? Obviously not Australia which was locally dealt the dredded A rating and skipped but was the story sent back or (say) locally archived? And presumably the 1987 broadcast was the censored version? The NTSC copies were supplied to USA, Canada and Latin America. We know the USA set was uncut. At for PAL, United Arab Emirates aired it in 1977, so very likely got unedited tapes. The Commonwealth sales didn't occur until 1979 - I saw the New Zealand broadcast of the story that year and I'm fairly certain it was uncut. (When it was repeated in 1987, TVNZ was supplied with the cut version as that was now the BBC's "master tape" (if you'll pardon the pun!) Brunei was often supplied with tapes from NZ, so they'd have received the uncut NZ copies. There's a strong chance those then went to Hong Kong in 1980. So that means all the countries in the Pacific / Asia region saw it uncut. But since Gibraltar and Nigeria (both aired it in 1980) are closer to the UK, they likely got a separate set of tapes, likely the post-repeat cut versions. |
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Post by Rob Moss on Apr 28, 2024 23:53:07 GMT
If any what countries either PAL/NTSC did broadcast the uncensored episode prior to been edited? Obviously not Australia which was locally dealt the dredded A rating and skipped but was the story sent back or (say) locally archived? And presumably the 1987 broadcast was the censored version? Canada and the United States. Ian's off-air U-Matic tape was made by copying Tom Lundie's Betamax recording. Lundie is the same American fam that provided off-air color copies of many 3rd Doctor episodes. Lundie gave all his Betamax tapes to Ian, who them made U-Matic tapes for the BBC to have in their collection. He still haves the original Betamax tapes to this day. No it wasn't - you're thinking of the colour Pertwees. The original uncut Deadly Assassin 3 was only ever shown once in the whole world - in the UK, on BBC1, and that's where Ian recorded it from, because shortly after transmission, the master tape was edited. Any repeats or overseas sales were made from the edited master tape, up to the point where the cliffhanger was restored for the DVD. |
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