'no hiding place' on Ebay

[Joe Cole]

I'm not going to argue every point with you -- it's clear that you don't like film. That's fine. But I really find it insulting that you keep implying that film collectors are somehow stupid and should buy DVDs instead. Why are you on a crusade to convince people to stop collecting film?

Not too long ago a charming couple wrote a letter to a well known film collectors magazine.

They appeared almost heartbroken because they had amassed a large Super 8mm Disney collection of feature cartoons. Each had cost in the region of £300 to £400. They had been cared for and stored properly and they were proud to own these. They were seen as an investment.

Until they realized that the prints were fading.........this had happened quite quickly and they felt angry that fresh prints had all gone this way.

When you see film collectors conventions, there is a reek of the past. There are a few younger enthusiasts, but the majority are stuck in a perpetual time warp. Often in denial because until very recently they had the ability to do something TV couldn't do. Now that is changing rapidly. Digital technology will create a home entertainment revolution.

There will always be a certain charm for film, in the same way that silent movies survive as pleasure for a few, but they were of their time.

If 16mm film was such a good domestic format, it would be being used much more than it currently is. It belongs in the 20th century and not the 21st.

[Steven Sigel]

Joe said:

I'm not going to argue every point with you -- it's clear that you don't like film. That's fine. But I really find it insulting that you keep implying that film collectors are somehow stupid and should buy DVDs instead. Why are you on a crusade to convince people to stop collecting film?

Not too long ago a charming couple wrote a letter to a well known film collectors magazine.

They appeared almost heartbroken because they had amassed a large Super 8mm Disney collection of feature cartoons. Each had cost in the region of £300 to £400. They had been cared for and stored properly and they were proud to own these. They were seen as an investment.

Until they realized that the prints were fading.........this had happened quite quickly and they felt angry that fresh prints had all gone this way.

When you see film collectors conventions, there is a reek of the past. There are a few younger enthusiasts, but the majority are stuck in a perpetual time warp. Often in denial because until very recently they had the ability to do something TV couldn't do. Now that is changing rapidly. Digital technology will create a home entertainment revolution.

There will always be a certain charm for film, in the same way that silent movies survive as pleasure for a few, but they were of their time.

If 16mm film was such a good domestic format, it would be being used much more than it currently is. It belongs in the 20th century and not the 21st.

1) 16mm is NOT a domestic format. It was used for TV broadcast and small non-theatrical use like colleges, chruches, etc. There was some minor use of it in the domestic markets (Castle Films for instance) - but that was a very small part of it's use.

2) Super 8 WAS a domestic format, and I agree with you there . When I got my DLP projector I got rid of my super 8 collection.

3) Fading can be determined by the film stock the prints are on -- If you only buy Technicolor and LPP prints, they wont fade. Nor will B&W prints. AGFA and Fuji prints are also good. Eastmancolor prints fade - everyone knows that.

4) 16mm is still used for filming some TV shows, and lower budget films. Most people use (and always have used) 35mm.

5) Projected video has a flat antiseptic look to it -- in short, it looks like projected video. That's not to say that the quality isn't excellent, but given the choice, I'd much rather watch a real film print. On the other hand, for new movies with dolby stereo sound and such, I generally stick to the DVDs.

6) I also collect 78rpm records and wind-up phonograpgs -- they ceased production of (proper) wind up machines in the 1920s and 78s in 1958 (USA). Does that mean that there's no room for colleciting those any more? It's a hobby not a competition. I can get a CD of a rare 50s R&R song for a few $, but I'll often pay many times that much to have it on a 78.

I'm not going to keep arguing with you -- you clearly have made your mind up. I will just reiterate -- if you don't like film, don't collect it, but stop telling film collectors that we're idiots for collecting film.

[Joe Cole]

16mm is NOT a domestic format

It was introduced as a domestic format. It was originally intended for home movies.

I'm not even attempting to agrue or suggest that 16mm collectors are idiots. All your words.

Rather, I suggest that the film collecting hobby is in the decline and there are good reasons why.

[Steven Sigel]

In a decline?? There's no evidence of that at all. There is very little of the top stuff showing up for sale (which means people are holding onto it), prices are up, not down over the past several years. Few large collections are going on the market. New collectors are entering the hobby regularly. And while there are some people getting out, there always have been people comming and going. The majority of them also appear to be smaller collectors with lesser material.

I sold more film ($ wise, volumewise and profitwise) in 2005 than ever before... In 2006, I'm already at 40% of my 2005 sales, and we're only 1/4 into the year.

Doesn't sound like a decline to me...

[Steven Sigel]

>It was introduced as a domestic format. It was >originally intended for home movies.

Agreed, but it rapidly took on other uses which far exceeded any home use.

All syndicated TV broadcasts were done from 16mm for years and years. And even network broadcasts in smaller markets (large markets used the network feeds from 35mm).

[h hartley]

Joe said:

16mm is NOT a domestic format

It was introduced as a domestic format. It was originally intended for home movies.

I'm not even attempting to agrue or suggest that 16mm collectors are idiots. All your words.

Rather, I suggest that the film collecting hobby is in the decline and there are good reasons why.

Your still missing the point. Either that or your just a film hater ?
Collectors are not slaves to technology they collect what want to collect, and enjoy all baggage that goes with it.


Why do some people like driving 1965 Ford Mustangs?
because they enjoy the thought of the time it originated from plus all the tweaking ,messing about, meetings with enthusiasts and so on . are they stuck in the past?

Why do vinyl editions of ' hard days night ' fetch more money than a CD version? Why do they then spend half hour tweaking the stylus and cleaning the disc before they play it? when they could just listen to an MP3?

You would also probably be surprised to know that many UK detective series are still shot on 16mm Why?
When they could make the show with a 3 grand video camera?

[Joe Cole]

are they stuck in the past?

Yes. About as far back as Sir Mortimer Wheeler.

Next you'll be telling us you clean your comb in 'Barbicide', cuddle up to a stuffed Topov every night and hanker after the odd packet of 'Rendells Pessiaries'.

[Deleted]

Hi,

As there are a lot of film experts posting and reading at the moment I have a few questions which I'm sure someone will be able to answer.

Firstly, I have about 20 rolls of standard 8mm cine film taken between 1959 and 1968 (mainly).

Will this deteriorate in the same way as other film stock (nitrate aside - we all know how that can go if not stored properly).

Secondly, does anyone know of a reputable company that will be able to transfer this priceless (to my family anyway) collection without charging the earth to do it?

Lastly, just out of curiosity, I believe that in the past, whenever a film was shown on television, they did actually show it from the actual film (as opposed to a videotape) - was this the case and is it still practiced these days.

Thanks in advance

Peter

[Joe Cole]

If the 8mm is colour and Kodachrome, it is exceptionally stable and fade proof. The 'Widescreen Center' is one of the few (I think) that do a professional transfer. What you do not want is a 'light box' transfer, where the film is projected onto a screen and camera recorded.

[Deleted]

Hi Joe,

Thanks for that - I forgot to say I'm in the UK.

Peter

[Joe Cole]

try here:

www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/cine.php

[Deleted]

Thanks Joe - I'll give them a call.

Peter

[h hartley]

Dont the widescreen centre just put on a mark up and pass the business to somebody else?

frame by frame transfer is the probably a good idea? , its sometimes advertised at the top of this page

standard 8 transfers can be superb and a lot superior to super 8 IMHO

[Brian Fretwell]

If you are talking about silent 16fps for standard 8 would be slightly more on speed on telecine at 16 2/3 fps.

Possibly Filmtek wwwbffc.biz/ (use link to Keith Wilton email) would offer a better service.

[Brian Fretwell]

As for the widescreen centre they seem recently (last October) to have bought their own telecine machine, described as a "broadcast standard SuperScan [tm] running at 16, 18 or 24 fps without flicker or rollbars".