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Post by Stephen Byers on Feb 8, 2019 0:41:24 GMT
Paul, though Damian did indeed locate the censor clips back in the 1990s, I believe Kal were the ones who finally organised for their repatriation to the UK, and therefore deserve credit for this, or am I wrong? Though it is right to note the background to recoveries, I do not understand why you are so consistently negative towards Kaleidoscope. Surely they are doing excellent work in the field, as the many lost shows they have brought back for all to enjoy amply attests to? "... the many lost shows they have brought back for all to enjoy amply attests to?"
The word "all to enjoy" is a tad of an overstatement. Like when rare clips are recovered only to dsappear once again into their dusty archives. Hmm - the concept of a 'personal collection' is a moot point. That's why anything we recover in Radio they will never get their sticky hands on - and we do have a lot. BTW what exactly are K's archiving policies? One would hope that they make at least three copies of everything that they get - with at least one copy being stored off site; and the originals retained in a climate controlled vault.
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Post by richardmarson on Feb 8, 2019 9:44:02 GMT
I believe that the physical masters of material held by Kaleidoscope are held in a rented lock up in Birmingham.
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Post by Stephen Byers on Feb 8, 2019 16:02:55 GMT
Not environmenatlly controlled then?
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Post by richardmarson on Feb 8, 2019 16:47:01 GMT
Not as far as I know. That's terrifically expensive. I doubt the money is there; more than once, in times of financial pressure, Chris Perry told me he was thinking of handing back the keys and skipping the contents. Before anyone panics, I'm sure most material of value is now backed up on hard drives. But, as Paul has said elsewhere, it is a private collection.
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Post by Ant Harvison - WIPED NEWS on Feb 8, 2019 17:34:44 GMT
What has been posted above does concern me. Is there possibility of an official archive, that has the funds and resources to preserve material in the best possible way, stepping in to make back-up copies of Kal's holdings? I'm sure that the organisation would be happy to oblige, given the main objective we all share of recovering and preserving previously lost programms.
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Post by John Green on Feb 8, 2019 18:12:06 GMT
DISCOVERY 454 - Letty - Complete 6 part Series
I have known Avril Rowlands for ten years, I have even been to dinner parties at her house, but it never occurred to me to ask her if she had a copy of Letty that she wrote in 1984. Thanks to a tip-off from Ben Ricketts I asked Avril just before Christmas and she has duly returned the entire series on VHS, with some lovely CITV continuity as well.
Letty and her friends Brian, Trevor and Cath live at the Meadowbank Children's Home and are always getting into trouble.
Thanks to Steve Davis once again.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Feb 8, 2019 20:47:04 GMT
What has been posted above does concern me. Is there possibility of an official archive, that has the funds and resources to preserve material in the best possible way, stepping in to make back-up copies of Kal's holdings? I'm sure that the organisation would be happy to oblige, given the main objective we all share of recovering and preserving previously lost programms. I think in fact that the most important of the Kaleidoscope archive probably is in professional storage near the M25. There are many storage specialists that offer that service near there and depending on how much content requires storing, cost effective. For an organisation like Kaleidoscope which is relatively small, they can certainly afford it. Paul
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Post by Michael Pummell on Feb 9, 2019 4:59:29 GMT
Sorry Paul, it was my dodgy expression. What I intended to say was that the BBC and Kaleidoscope only have copies. The originals still reside with NAA. The censor clip listings are a fascinating snapshot of the level of TV censorship in Australia prior to 1971. Yes, I know this. I have been listening to Damian Shanahan regarding the subject since 1996. Various non Doctor Who projects I have worked on over the years have utilised the information and the actual clips. I don't think that it's particularly important for these clips to be online or even that the references are online. Anyone wishing to research television and indeed film censorship in Australia could have done exactly what Damian did when all there was to work with was the paperwork. People have become lazy. They think that looking online will give them the answers to everything. All it does is make it easier to find a limited amount of information, what is online, and removes the ability to make connections with the material that isn't. The fact that the references to the clips are online doesn't offer you any more insight into why the censorship board made its decisions, how they operated, who they were etc... To find that information out you will physically have to visit and look at the paperwork that's there and do some actual research. In the meantime, those with the clips can drool over a collection of shootings, knifings and sexist behaviour without understanding any of the context. Regards, Paul I don’t necessarily agree with you on the research aspect Paul. These are public archives and as such should make their holdings readily accessible to anyone interested if they are deemed to be on open access. Having worked for many years in one of these public archives in Australia the reason for existence is to provide access (if they are not closed for whatever reason) to our holdings. It’s one of those doctrines that has been drilled into me over the years. I do agree that the clips themselves have no value by themselves other to pique interest into why such a decision was made. Sometimes it’s obvious, but most of the time it’s not. If you are genuinely interested you can follow through with why such things exist in the first place. Having a list at least generates interest in finding out more. Some of what Kaleidoscope are claiming as a recovery aren’t really though. On the Margin has always been listed and wasn’t part of the new October 2017 list. Here in Australia distance is always an issue and visiting Sydney for sessions at NAA and somewhere like the ABC is not something that you can do easily enough I’m afraid. It requires time. Sadly budget restrictions at NAA have been so bad that the Chester Hills repository is only open three days a week. And yes, looking at these clips in March is nice for people visiting Birmingham for the event, but is utterly meaningless without knowing the context of the story as a whole or why they were deemed inappropriate for Australian audiences at the time.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Feb 9, 2019 8:34:00 GMT
looking at these clips in March is nice for people visiting Birmingham for the event, but is utterly meaningless without knowing the context of the story as a whole or why they were deemed inappropriate for Australian audiences at the time. I thought it ironic that the Doctor Who censor clips were played on a loop in the reception of the national archive for a time (so I was told). I don't think that Kaleidoscope have a theatrical licence for screening of that content (which certainly the BBC require them to have) so I think it unlikely that the relevant clearances would be obtained in time for March. Paul
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Post by Michael Pummell on Feb 10, 2019 5:08:40 GMT
looking at these clips in March is nice for people visiting Birmingham for the event, but is utterly meaningless without knowing the context of the story as a whole or why they were deemed inappropriate for Australian audiences at the time. I thought it ironic that the Doctor Who censor clips were played on a loop in the reception of the national archive for a time (so I was told). I don't think that Kaleidoscope have a theatrical licence for screening of that content (which certainly the BBC require them to have) so I think it unlikely that the relevant clearances would be obtained in time for March. Paul I believe they were played on a loop in the reception area, although I never saw it myself. The clips themselves also had showings in at least the Melbourne NAA office, which is where I first saw them. They may have got a run at all the other existing regional offices as well. Kaleidoscope had some role apparently in the repatriation of that No Hiding Place episode featuring Patrick Troughton that the National Film and Sound Archive had. There was never any information about how it got there and whether it was an exABC print.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Feb 10, 2019 10:02:55 GMT
The No Hiding Place was spotted in the NFSA, Kaleidoscope was alerted and contacts were made. that much I can tell you, that much I know.
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Post by Michael Pummell on Feb 11, 2019 7:39:03 GMT
The No Hiding Place was spotted in the NFSA, Kaleidoscope was alerted and contacts were made. that much I can tell you, that much I know. I was interested if perhaps it was an example of a print being liberated from the ABC. In the scheme of things these details can be important.
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Post by John Green on Nov 13, 2019 16:09:39 GMT
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RWels
Member
Posts: 2,860
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Post by RWels on Dec 19, 2019 13:41:39 GMT
I quote:
Sherlock Holmes and other BBC clips Sherlock Holmes 18.11.1968 Black Peter (missing) Sherlock Holmes 09.09.1968 The Second Stain (missing) Sherlock Holmes 28.10.1968 The Naval Treaty (missing) Sherlock Holmes 23.09.1968 The Dancing Men (missing) Girl in a black bikini (missing) Hit and run (missing) These days, some European national broadcasters are unlocking their doors, and allowing open access to their catalogues. The public television archives of Holland and Flanders (Belgium) for example can each be searched online, and many programmes have a full description. British drama and comedy went down very well in north west Europe. Unfortunately, although people have been checking for anything they could think of, copies almost never remain. Almost. In the 1960s, "Ziet u er wat in", (freely: Do you like what you see) was a Flemish (Belgian) programme informing the viewers of what TV had to offer in the week to come -- with previews! This way, several short clips (typically around one or two minutes) survive, including missing episodes of the much sought-after BBC's 1968 Sherlock Holmes series. (Luckily, the Flemish half of Belgium uses subtitles instead of dubbing.) Kaleidoscope have been able to search all the relevant records and find six lengthy clips from missing BBC programmes. Two completely missing BBC series now have some representation at least. 16mm telerecordings now transferred to file.
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