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Post by Ronnie McDevitt on May 3, 2020 19:23:04 GMT
Hmm, I'll give the Beeb the benefit of the doubt on this one though a revised version of Power of the Daleks' seems a very dubious project to me. Indeed, having earnestly forked out for proceeding animations such as 'Macra' et al can I now expect that those too will be 'upgraded' in the future? I hope not as all I ever hear about these releases are the punishing time and budgetary constraints placed upon the animators....yet suddenly 'Power' has been gifted further resources to arguably make it what it should've been in the first place?! Pre-ordered then, albeit begrudgingly. Surely the animation of a missing serial is just a prop on which to hang the audio soundtrack,so why go to the bother of trying to re-create what is already a re-creation? Seems a bit pointless really. And I've always thought that Power's narrative was so good and the existing soundtrack so clear,it doesn't even need a visual element! However, what I really can't stand are those bloated slabs of speckled boxset vinyl that the BBC are releasing. Those are truly redundant and a cynical attempt to get fans to part with their cash for what is sheer product.And how can you enjoy listening to a continuous soundtrack when you have to keep getting up and turn the LP over every half an hour?😠 I am quite happy with the raw soundtracks of missing episodes myself and have never bought a purely animated release - I don't count The Invasion as such. Everyone can make their own decisions of course but for me as far as this re release of Power is concerned I am afraid that the words flogging, dead and horse immediately spring to mind.
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Post by Richard Bignell on May 3, 2020 22:39:41 GMT
Surely the animation of a missing serial is just a prop on which to hang the audio soundtrack,so why go to the bother of trying to re-create what is already a re-creation? No, it's a valid attempt to provide a set of visuals that are now missing in order to tell a story in the most explanatory way in the same way the numerous telesnaps/photographic reconstructions have done over the years. The audio soundtracks alone often don't convey the visual action, which is why the commercially released soundtracks have narration added to them. Loose Cannon often chose to update their recons because they felt that they could later visualise the episodes in a better way. This really is no different in that respect. The team involved ALL felt that they could have done a better job, so that's what they've done. If you don't like the animations full stop, that's fine, lots of people don't, but it seems an odd criticism to make that it isn't a positive thing to want to try and make such a presentation a lot better than it was before and add a lot of new material along the way that wasn't available originally. That's what we've been doing with the VHS > DVD > Blu-ray Collections over the decades. We try to improve on what's been done previously. The BBC aren't releasing them. Demon Music Group are. Why are they redundant if people are enjoying them? And enjoy them they evidently do as they obviously sell very well. For those of us who recorded the Doctor Who episodes off-air onto audio cassette all those years ago, we were quite used to having to turn over the tape after every episode or two, so it's really no different.
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Post by stevehoare61 on May 4, 2020 4:43:30 GMT
I am so agreeing with Richard. I am in the Minority, Im happy to buy this Power DVD, its all freedom of choice anyway, the stills we have seen, look far superior than the previous ones and the new clips, and Docs make it attractive to me. No ones forced to buy anything, the Vinyls are another aspect. I personally don't buy them as I want the whole package, audio and video. But don't forget, back in the 70s, when The Sound Effects LP, The Pescatons and the first Genesis LPs were released, we all shot out and bought them, because then, that was the nearest we were ever getting to the real thing. Vinyl collecting is a popular hobby or obsession, and providing the items are decent and good quality, who gives a toss.
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Post by RhysH on May 4, 2020 8:25:33 GMT
Interview with Charles Norton from Saturday on the reasons for the re-release of the animated POTD. Seems as though all the animation has been redone to a greater or lesser extent. And motivations were from an idea of celebrating PT's 100th birthday this year with this and the other 2 animated releases this year, although he admits this seems to have been not promoted for some reason. www.youtube.com/watch?v=1olgsZ7Cuc4Very sad hearing the segment about The Highlanders though in terms of being highly unlikely to be animated due to it's complexities. I know it's been said before, but was still hopeful.
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Post by timmunton on May 4, 2020 19:15:27 GMT
After listening to the Charles Norton interview it seems there were 2 errors re. The Highlanders - firstly it shouldn't have been listed in the publicity blurb at all because there wasn't disc room for it in the end and secondly the publicity lists it as being part of the old special features which were originally on the 2016 release, whereas - if I was listening properly - The Highlanders extra would, if it hadn't fallen through, been a feature new to dvd/blu ray (though previously on CD).
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on May 4, 2020 21:53:37 GMT
Surely the animation of a missing serial is just a prop on which to hang the audio soundtrack,so why go to the bother of trying to re-create what is already a re-creation? No, it's a valid attempt to provide a set of visuals that are now missing in order to tell a story in the most explanatory way in the same way the numerous telesnaps/photographic reconstructions have done over the years. The audio soundtracks alone often don't convey the visual action, which is why the commercially released soundtracks have narration added to them. Loose Cannon often chose to update their recons because they felt that they could later visualise the episodes in a better way. This really is no different in that respect. The team involved ALL felt that they could have done a better job, so that's what they've done. If you don't like the animations full stop, that's fine, lots of people don't, but it seems an odd criticism to make that it isn't a positive thing to want to try and make such a presentation a lot better than it was before and add a lot of new material along the way that wasn't available originally. That's what we've been doing with the VHS > DVD > Blu-ray Collections over the decades. We try to improve on what's been done previously. The BBC aren't releasing them. Demon Music Group are. Why are they redundant if people are enjoying them? And enjoy them they evidently do as they obviously sell very well. For those of us who recorded the Doctor Who episodes off-air onto audio cassette all those years ago, we were quite used to having to turn over the tape after every episode or two, so it's really no different. The Loose Cannons are free, not commercial releases and easy to view on YouTube. They are the pastime of dedicated fans who get no financial reward. They are still only a means of enhancing the soundtrack and giving you visual reference to videotapes destroyed long ago.And as such, successive improvements don't require fans to shell out for them. I love the BBC's animations but it's still wierd to release 'improvements' when it will set you back £25 plus for the privilege. I remember The Reign of Terror was given a terrible review when released back in 2013 but it's never been considered for an upgrade.And what annoys me is that the original animation will also become redundant as a result.
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Post by Richard Bignell on May 4, 2020 23:21:14 GMT
Except, of course, Derek Handley who worked very hard on producing those original Loose Cannon recons so many years ago is the same Derek Handley that us currently producing the latest, upgraded telesnaps/photographic recons to got with the animations - for which he gets paid. So yes, if you want to get the latest versions of those, you do have to buy the animated releases.
And the animation team that did The Reign of Terror no longer exists. The one that did Power does - and they all feel the same way about improving it.
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Post by Robbie Moubert on May 5, 2020 0:50:46 GMT
And what annoys me is that the original animation will also become redundant as a result. People who choose not to buy the new version will still be able to watch the original. Their discs aren't going to self-destruct!
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Post by stevehoare61 on May 5, 2020 4:59:04 GMT
Im really so surprised at your negativity over this item Jaspal, you are usually one of the more liberal minded and moderate people on these pages, but this has really wound you up, hasn't it?
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on May 5, 2020 7:54:45 GMT
Im really so surprised at your negativity over this item Jaspal, you are usually one of the more liberal minded and moderate people on these pages, but this has really wound you up, hasn't it? No Steve,I love the thought that a new animation of POTD is being produced and to paraphrase Nicholas Briggs 'my Dr. Who gland has been tingled' so I'm definitely going to buy it.But I question some of the commercial decisions made by business executives at the BBC and other companies as to what constitutes a legitimate creative release and to what purpose an animated upgrade serves.The videotapes for the serial are long gone,animations are creative asides to help give a visual reference to the soundtrack.The argument that improving the animation somehow gives a better experience is questionable when the original released a couple of years ago was more than adequate.And likening it to LC is clearly wrong as that isn't a for-profit venture.Maybe it's just the art student/Rock and Roller in me.But hey Amazon,take my money-it's sold!
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on May 5, 2020 8:04:34 GMT
Im really so surprised at your negativity over this item Jaspal, you are usually one of the more liberal minded and moderate people on these pages, but this has really wound you up, hasn't it? I am thoroughly repentant...
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on May 5, 2020 9:14:44 GMT
All though I found the choice to reanimate Power a second time to be odd, I’m not against it. The immersion into a missing story is tough when the original doesn’t exist, and telesnap remakes are like poison to some people. Animations are an alternative, but I feel like animations were getting it “wrong” at the start. Too much emphasis on getting it to be as close to the original when the original was good because it wasn’t animation. It was filmed studio and there is a unique magic with that which isn’t reproducible. Animation is better when it’s able to play to its strengths and the recent ones we’ve got realize that.
Power I feel was the start of that, but it was obviously rushed in some spots. And since then there have been improvements in the creative decisions. Loose Cannon gave us better reconstructions when they knew they had a better way to represent their medium. This is the same. The animators are still here and are willing and wanting to provide a 2.0 that will better represent the medium they’re mastering.
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Post by Richard Bignell on May 5, 2020 10:08:12 GMT
No Steve,I love the thought that a new animation of POTD is being produced and to paraphrase Nicholas Briggs 'my Dr. Who gland has been tingled' so I'm definitely going to buy it. If the original is "more than adequate", why are you going to buy it again? And how can you challenge the assertion that the improved animation will improve the viewing experience if you haven't actually seen any of it?
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on May 5, 2020 11:33:28 GMT
No Steve,I love the thought that a new animation of POTD is being produced and to paraphrase Nicholas Briggs 'my Dr. Who gland has been tingled' so I'm definitely going to buy it. If the original is "more than adequate", why are you going to buy it again? And how can you challenge the assertion that the improved animation will improve the viewing experience if you haven't actually seen any of it? At this stage in time Richard,animations for missing Dr Who stories are still a novelty,so fans like me will still buy them because of this.But surely you could make the counter argument that you could enhance the viewing experience every time you produce any animated version of a specific story-it will always be better than a tele-snap recon and also different to the version before.Also,case in point I don't buy all the new blu-ray collections because the original DVDs are adequate-even though I love some of the newly released stories.The novelty has worn off and I have made a decision to spend my money on spin-offs and Reeltime releases rather than keep shelling out on re-releases of classic stories.And will the animations be upgraded again if the decision is made to include them in a season blu-ray boxset? How about an animation of a Target novelisation?Now that would be excellent with their non-televised backstories,prologues and the changing faces of Dr Who.Similar yet significantly different to the original serial.But I get the feeling that's what we're going to get with the new release...
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Post by Richard Bignell on May 5, 2020 12:02:23 GMT
At this stage in time Richard,animations for missing Dr Who stories are still a novelty,so fans like me will still buy them because of this. I'm not sure that actually answers the question though, Jaspal. I honestly can't see what point you're making here. Every time the various teams produce a new DVD/BR, regardless of whether that's of a missing story or an existing one, were trying to make it the very best we can within the budget we have. The often means going over and beyond what we really can afford to be doing, simply because we love the programme itself, so we want to present the best product possible. Take for instance the commentaries that Toby Hadoke puts together for the animated releases. There is pretty much no budget at all for those or often no budget at all, but he goes the extra mile and does it anyway because he want's the end product to be better that it otherwise would be. And a telesnap recon isn't "better" in any pejorative sense. It's just a different way of experiencing the same story, which is why the releases also include them. Some people have different tolerances. Some will always view the animation as the superior product and for others it's the other way around. Regardless, the entire animation team that did the original release of Power felt that their work could be improved with the experience they had gained. BBC Studios felt the same and will willing to allocate them the budget to do so. That's entirely your prerogative. Personally, I love to see the programme restored to near as possible the quality of the original transmission tapes - and indeed even more so when the original film elements still exist and can be rescanned in HD. I also love the plethora of new material we are able to include as well, be that brand new features or never seen before archive material. But that desire to experience the core programme in a better format than before is key for me. Otherwise I would have stuck with the multi-generational VHS copies of the old stories I obtained during the 1980s! Not a chance. There isn't anywhere near enough money in the boxset budget to do anything with animations. Again, I really don't have a clue where you're going with this one. You say that an animation of a Target novelisation would be "excellent", but then use it as a basis to condemn the new Power animation because you think (wrongly) that that's what the new release is going to be.
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