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Post by richardfitzgerald on Sept 13, 2015 11:30:48 GMT
In one of those "the penny's dropped" moments, I realised of course Rediffusion must have had telerecording facilities in 1956, otherwise the episodes of A Show Called Fred/Son of Fred made earlier that year that were mentioned in Roger Lewis biography of Sellers would not still exist!
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Post by Peter Stirling on Sept 15, 2015 23:06:26 GMT
RTV took over an old studio used by Harry Towers Productions I believe, as they needed somewhere to record 'Double Your Money'. This studio had the experimental 1000 + line cameras (for more impressive drama telerecording). RTV used these cameras for a small time to film DYM, but they thought it was like having a hammer to crack a nut so they were refurbished with conventional 405 line cameras.
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Post by Neil Hendry on Sept 17, 2015 9:30:43 GMT
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Post by Neil Hendry on Sept 17, 2015 9:46:29 GMT
RTV took over an old studio used by Harry Towers Productions I believe, as they needed somewhere to record 'Double Your Money'. This studio had the experimental 1000 + line cameras (for more impressive drama telerecording). RTV used these cameras for a small time to film DYM, but they thought it was like having a hammer to crack a nut so they were refurbished with conventional 405 line cameras. Harry Towers was an interesting and innovative soul! --> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Alan_TowersAlso, see that he produced some of the Armchair Theatre productions for ABC - listed on BFI database. Be interesting to find out the Studio name/ location used in Double Your Money. Useful background information on RTV/ ITV Studios in London. Great website! --> www.tvstudiohistory.co.uk/studio%20history.htm |
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Post by Christopher Perry on Sept 17, 2015 13:28:54 GMT
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Post by Peter Stirling on Sept 17, 2015 14:23:23 GMT
Thanks Chris. This is a page (courtesy of Stephen Pichard's collection- one time tech) which shows some of the later thinking at RTV.  Also interesting to note that the big guns like Granada,ATV etc were roaring to go with colour on 405 lines (which would have meant simpler, thus much cheaper sets) but were somewhat hampered by gov indecision. |
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Post by Paul Rumbol on Sept 17, 2015 14:58:18 GMT
An earlier article from same magazine in April 1959 |
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Post by Neil Hendry on Sept 17, 2015 16:26:45 GMT
Johnson's story is fascinating but I'm puzzled why some series like Tales Of Mystery missed out on his stated policy having any episodes selected at all - did they get overlooked in what was after all a mammoth task for one man to take on, or is it possible that he did select examples from series that are now listed as completely missing, it's just that they haven't been cataloged properly in the BFI archive? It's also interesting he highlighted Peter Sellers as an example of a star......... Bit more information on Tales of Mystery (1961-1963) Not sure of the status of surviving episodes (if any) - seems as though none are held by BFI based on Richard's comment. We now know, however, that they were recorded - here are the details. Series 1 (1961)Live Transmission- recorded onto 405 line monochrome videotape off-air. Series 2 (1962) and Series 3 (1963)405 line monochrome 2" videotape I have the production numbers - so please PM me if you would like them |
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Post by Neil Hendry on Sept 17, 2015 16:50:07 GMT
An earlier article from same magazine in April 1959 Thanks for sharing Paul. Interesting that there is a strong empahasis in the article about using videotape technology to create copies of programmes for overseas sales. From what I understand, though, I think the videotapes were usually copied/ telerecorded to 16mm film for overseas sales and the tapes reused? Some good details of how AR (RTV) and the other TV networks were already gearing up in 1959 for the overseas market. "AR, one of the first to use Ampex, must have a huge library of material by now. Already it is selling many of it's programmes of a documentary nature, as well as it's plays, to Australia and other the countries in the British Commonwealth." and: "Granada is taping practically all it's programmes with a view to sale in Europe as well as the Commonwealth. ATV has been doing this for a long while. ABC has built up a vast stockpile of drama productions from which a considerable overseas revenue is promised by Tony Morris, overseas manager of the company." and: "ATV and ABC have formed a joint company to.........assist the companies in their worldwide sales drive." |
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Post by christian bews on Sept 18, 2015 18:22:41 GMT
Thanks Chris. This is a page (courtesy of Stephen Pichard's collection- one time tech) which shows some of the later thinking at RTV. Also interesting to note that the big guns like Granada,ATV etc were roaring to go with colour on 405 lines (which would have meant simpler, thus much cheaper sets) but were somewhat hampered by gov indecision. Reading this rare article on rediffusion's autumn schedule of 1966,when RTV lost their franchise & ended their three year contract with Disney a year earlier did rediffusion sold the copyright of their 'Disney wonderland' series to Disney?also as Dave Clark holds the exclusive rights to the iconic rediffusion pop show 'ready steady go',how did he buy the rights to the show? Around about the time global television services went into liquidation in 1971? |
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Post by Peter Stirling on Sept 18, 2015 23:51:26 GMT
]Reading this rare article on rediffusion's autumn schedule of 1966,when RTV lost their franchise & ended their three year contract with Disney a year earlier did rediffusion sold the copyright of their 'Disney wonderland' series to Disney?also as Dave Clark holds the exclusive rights to the iconic rediffusion pop show 'ready steady go',how did he buy the rights to the show? Around about the time global television services went into liquidation in 1971? Global Television didn't go into liquidation at that time but took on the mantle of producing and co producing programmes for the international market themselves, they were involved in a lesser known sci fi production called 'Star Maidens' and on behalf of them the writer Ian Stuart Black actually took a troupe of technicians around the world making a TV show wherever they laid their hat (well it seemed like that) they made 'Elephant Boy' in India 'Levkas Man' in Greece (I think?) and a few in Australia (Think Boney was one not sure). The Ready Steady telerecordings were actually found by the Inland Revenue, they had taken over the Adastral House in Kingsway a while after RTV's demise and were clearing out some old cupboards and discovered all the old films ..so the legend goes . I think when word got out (sometime in the 70s) Dave Clark first secured the films and then went through the probably laborious process of securing the rights which as you know with a music programme is a complete minefield. Not sure with Disney but I would suspect that the third year of the contract and although paid for was just went the way of the wind? Very little of RTV's catalogue was taken over to Thames as they were mainly ABC boys who were not that interested in anything not previously produced by them. Many of the now demoralised ex RTV staff went to the fledgling Yorkshire TV. This is the sort of programmes RTV was co financing.....for children -..although you would never know it Columbia Screen Gems take all the credits www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8FPbagf7Zk |
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Post by Richard Marple on Sept 19, 2015 12:45:15 GMT
IIRC The Monkees were a Screen Gems production, but was shown by the BBC, had the RTV deal lapsed by then?
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Post by christian bews on Sept 20, 2015 1:01:29 GMT
IIRC The Monkees were a Screen Gems production, but was shown by the BBC, had the RTV deal lapsed by then? I know another screen gems production on the BBC at the same time & that was 'bewitched' |
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Post by Paul Rumbol on Sept 20, 2015 9:11:34 GMT
<Interesting that there is a strong empahasis in the article about ABC using videotape technology to create copies of programmes for overseas sales. From what I understand, though, I think the videotapes were usually copied/ telerecorded to 16mm film for overseas sales and the tapes reused?>
Neil back in 2001 when I was creating my now defunct website dedicated to ABC's 'Oh Boy! I had an interesting chat with the chief archivist at Thames, whose very first job at ABC in 1959 was assisting in making film prints of the final 13 'Oh Boy's!' for broadcast in America. He retired about 10 years ago and have lost contact. But looking back now I regret not grilling him for more detail. i.e. addressing the questions Neil is currently asking: what format he was copying from (tape?), were tapes often wiped without transferring, how many prints of each show were made and the percentage of shows that were being recorded and transferred to film in this way etc. My grasp of technology was and still is rudimentary to say the least , but I'm finding this thread fascinating reading by members here who obviously know their stuff.
At the time I was solely fascinated that so many Oh Boy! shows quickly went missing, so my brief write up for the website focused on that aspect alone.For what little its worth here's the text:
"Len Whitcher, chief archivist at Pearson TV Group began as a 'calling messenger' at ABC Studios in early 1959 and he recalls his first job in the in-house lab was making up compressed/married 16mm prints of 'Oh Boy!' …..that is, make 'workable' prints of the shows, which combined both film and audio in one reel.He recalls that even as late as 1970 he personally had TWO, now lost, 'Oh Boy!' shows in his office. By this time Thames Television had taken over the copyright following a shotgun marriage between ABC and Rediffusion in 1968. Len by this time was working as archivist with Thames.
"Looking back I wish I had kept them," he said, "but in about 1970 three ex-Vernons girls were working under their new name of 'The Ladybirds' and were recording downstairs in Studio 4 of Thames Television House in Kingsway. The production manager requested both shows be sent down because the girls wanted to have 'a laugh' during their lunch break and see how they looked backed then. The two shows were never returned." said Len. "To this day I often wondered what happened to them."
I interviewed one of the Ladybirds Maggie Stredder last year for my now completed 'Oh Boy! documentary and unfortunately she has no memories of the incident.
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Post by Neil Hendry on Sept 21, 2015 13:16:58 GMT
Neil back in 2001 when I was creating my now defunct website dedicated to ABC's 'Oh Boy! I had an interesting chat with the chief archivist at Thames, whose very first job at ABC in 1959 was assisting in making film prints of the final 13 'Oh Boy's!' for broadcast in America. He retired about 10 years ago and have lost contact. But looking back now........ Glad you are enjoying the thread Paul and thanks for sharing this information. Your anecdotes from your conversations with Len Witcher on ABC's 'Oh Boy' reflect what appears to be a fairly standard practice within ITV regions at the time for overseas sales - that the programmes were copied to 16mm film for export. This enabled the original tapes to be reused (and so a useful 'economy') and produce film prints that could be broadcast without conflict with the various overseas television standards. I know this is an RTV thread but it's useful learning about the practices which seem to have been shared by the various regions. Whilst copies to 16mm film seem to have been commonplace for overseas sales, I do know, however, that with the Avengers Series 1, ABC had requests from other ITV regions (who came on board to air some of the episodes) for their broadcast copies to be made on videotape. There may have been various reasons for this, the format would have compatible and perhaps the process/ quality was superior than making a telerecorded 16mm copy? The downside of course is that these videotape copies could then be returned to ABC, wiped and reused. I am not sure how widespread this practice was in the UK, but it would mean that the number of copies of programmes that may have survived in the UK would be diminished. So for programmes to have survived in this country there must have been a deliberate decision to create archive/ master prints on film. The surviving RTV archive held by the BFI is predominantly on film - which strongly suggests that film is the medium of choice if a programmes is to have any chance of surviving. And that's where the questions you raised are very valid Paul. What percentage of programmes were copied to film? Numbers of copies of each programme? What does seem to be appearing as a pattern, though, is that RTV/ ABC were creating 16mm film prints of their programmes from when they began in the mid-50's onwards. As mentioned previously, these were commercial TV stations who were creating saleable assets and certainly knew the value of using them for repeats and overseas sales. So before a particular videotape was wiped, I think there would have been a process in place to review whether it's contents should be archived to film first. The other question of course is if a programme was copied to film for archiving (master copy)/ overseas sales - what was it's shelf-life? Were there periodic clearouts? I do think that there is still great potential for further discoveries to be made, from private collectors and from overseas - especially 16mm film prints that were sent to broadcasters in other countries, which were either not returned or were copied before returning. |
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