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Post by George D on May 13, 2015 18:19:14 GMT
Ive recently been told in a facebook group, richard molesworth shared...
"The NFA hold the BBC's old 2-inch tapes, both TX tapes and things like studio sessions and 71 edits. No organisation had room for the BBC's 1-inch tapes, so they were all junked once the BBC had finished with them. The BBC only transferred TX versions of DW material held on 1-inch tape, so when they junked their DW 1-inch tapes, they junked all the 71 edits and studio/location tapes from seasons 23-26. The good news is that these were all saved and stored with 2/entertain for use in DVD extras. The bad news is that when 2/entertain went bump, these tapes were then all trashed in the clearout...."
"They weren't 'bits used for dvd extras', these were the 71 edits and studio/location recordings from seasons 21-26 (mainly 23 onwards) that the BBC had junked. 2/e were persuaded to make a home for them at their distribution centre so that they could be called on if neccesary for the DVD range. When Woolworths went bump, it effectively closed down 2/e's distribution centre, and everything inside it became the property of the administrators. The actual stock (DVDs, etc) was sold off to offset the liquidation costs, but everything else (including the BBC's old 1-inch DW tapes, which weren't technicaly the property of 2/e in the first place) was thrown in skips so the warehouse could be cleared and re-sold / re-let."
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Post by Hugh Pearson on May 13, 2015 20:13:38 GMT
To follow-up on George's post, Richard also mentioned that:
Whenever I get around to doing a new edition of 'Wiped', I'll try and figure out what's gone for good, and what's still around in one form or another. At the moment I'd guess that 60-70% of it has gone for good. Maybe more.
Don't know about everyone else here, but this situation is news to me - I really wonder about how this has occurred.
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Post by George D on May 13, 2015 21:49:27 GMT
its terrible so much has been destroyed so recently
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 17:58:23 GMT
Outrageous!
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Post by Michael Plowright on May 15, 2015 0:01:41 GMT
For me, this brings back a familiar saying - "One man's trash is another man's treasure"...
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Post by Paul Vanezis on May 15, 2015 0:48:20 GMT
Ive recently been told in a facebook group, richard molesworth shared... "The NFA hold the BBC's old 2-inch tapes, both TX tapes and things like studio sessions and 71 edits. No organisation had room for the BBC's 1-inch tapes, so they were all junked once the BBC had finished with them. The BBC only transferred TX versions of DW material held on 1-inch tape, so when they junked their DW 1-inch tapes, they junked all the 71 edits and studio/location tapes from seasons 23-26. The good news is that these were all saved and stored with 2/entertain for use in DVD extras. The bad news is that when 2/entertain went bump, these tapes were then all trashed in the clearout...." "They weren't 'bits used for dvd extras', these were the 71 edits and studio/location recordings from seasons 21-26 (mainly 23 onwards) that the BBC had junked. 2/e were persuaded to make a home for them at their distribution centre so that they could be called on if neccesary for the DVD range. When Woolworths went bump, it effectively closed down 2/e's distribution centre, and everything inside it became the property of the administrators. The actual stock (DVDs, etc) was sold off to offset the liquidation costs, but everything else (including the BBC's old 1-inch DW tapes, which weren't technicaly the property of 2/e in the first place) was thrown in skips so the warehouse could be cleared and re-sold / re-let." I think Richard has got a bit confused. The one inch tapes that were being thrown out by the BBC Archive (which in fairness should have been junked in the 1990's) were stored by 2Entertain, now BBC Worldwide at an outside facility. Those tapes are still there, although their future is uncertain. They only survived because I requested that they be retained in the BBC Archive, but even I couldn't persuade them to keep them once they left Windmill Road. The material which was in the control of the administrators was physical media (DVD's) distributed by Woolworths. As I understand it, although owned by 2Entertain, because it was at a Woolworths warehouse, the administrators just sold it all off cheap to recoup funds to settle with creditors. I don't know for certain, but it wouldn't surprise me if this information, if true was used by BBCWW as evidence for their low offer price for the remaining share of the 2E business. BBCWW had to argue their case in court because they retracted a higher offer when they realised the share they were buying was overvalued. Paul
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Post by Robert Lia on May 15, 2015 1:44:56 GMT
Well hopefully Paul the longer 71 edits will be retained for future use by some one else later on down the line, I was always interested in seeing the longer versions of episode 14 of Trial of a Time Lord but it was not used on the DVD box set when it was released.
Still I hope the mentatlity has not become that since the classic series is now out on DVD we can junk all the material that was used to make the DVDs.
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Post by George D on May 15, 2015 4:40:51 GMT
Thank you for the update and what you did to preserve this. It's great news that it still exists and that we are aware of the situation.
Since you say its future is uncertain, hopefully we can be proactive to preserve this material.
Also, if only one copy exists, it might be prudent to have backups at various locations of DVD quality or better.
Another option could be to release these as collector market, no frills DVDs. Since Dr who is profitable and there is no more vintage who to release, this could have potential for them.
Since Dr who has become more mainstream, and it now has vintage, hopefully it will be prized more and preserved.
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Post by Brad Phipps on May 15, 2015 4:56:47 GMT
I've got a Digibeta deck, I'll dub them for you at no cost!
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Post by Richard Marple on May 15, 2015 11:57:30 GMT
I know many longer edits of episodes have had the sections not used in the final edit released on DVD as a bonus, but assumed every one had been used by the restoration team.
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Post by George D on May 15, 2015 13:59:56 GMT
It appears not everything
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Post by Paul Vanezis on May 15, 2015 17:06:39 GMT
Well hopefully Paul the longer 71 edits will be retained for future use by some one else later on down the line, I was always interested in seeing the longer versions of episode 14 of Trial of a Time Lord but it was not used on the DVD box set when it was released. Still I hope the mentatlity has not become that since the classic series is now out on DVD we can junk all the material that was used to make the DVDs. Hi Bob, When we did the box set of 'Trial of a Time Lord', I ordered the one inch tapes from Windmill Road just before we got everything sent to 2e. Most of this material was dubbed off to digi-beta's and DVCam's. IIRC, because the tapes had been transferred, 2e then didn't want to add a further load of one-inch tapes to what was in storage, the cost of which had been quoted for the number sent from Windmill Road to them,and that didn't include the 'Trial' tapes. I ended up looking after the tapes myself. I just couldn't bring myself to skip them, so I still have them here somewhere, including the 71, 72 and 74 edits of 'Trial' episode 14. The TX version was the 73X and that one-inch tape has now been junked. Paul
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Post by Hugh Pearson on May 15, 2015 17:39:14 GMT
Thanks for letting us know about this Paul - you did the right thing! Maybe it's the hoarder in me, but the original tapes are precious.
Also
Thank you for documenting this for us too.
h
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Post by Paul Vanezis on May 15, 2015 19:33:46 GMT
Thank you for documenting this for us too. h You should also know that ALL one-inch transmission tapes of 'Doctor Who' have been junked. Yes, I was a little disappointed by that, especially when you consider that just about all the original two inch tapes do survive... Paul
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Post by Robert Lia on May 15, 2015 20:32:22 GMT
Glad to hear that you saved the master 71 edits Paul. Its a shame that the 1 inch tapes have all been junked as who knows the 22nd Century Doctor Who Restoration Team might have been able to use them to restore classic 80's who.
Still no material has been lost and that is what is most inportant
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