(O/T) DVD deterioration

[John S Miller]

lfbarfe said:

barryhodge said:

First series that I copied en masse was Larry Sanders, as the tapes (from the BBC tx's) were quickly disintergrating. Put them on the then-expensive TDK discs (£5+ each back in 2002) - now half aren't recognized by their original recorder, and will only play on this here laptop.

I know you posted this nearly a year ago, Barry, but if you haven't already, use the laptop and DVD Decrypter to copy them onto the hard drive for copying to fresh discs. I'm having trouble with a batch of Ritek G05s from this time last year, and I'm having to use all 3 of my DVD drives to get the discs read. For example one drive will copy only part of the disc, but another can copy another part of it. It's a pain in the arse and no mistake.

I agree with Louis, probably the best policy is to make sure you keep some kind of back up master to important material, either in hard drive format; or a locked rewritable disc format as well.

From what I know it seems to be finalised discs that seem to be problematic where problems do arise.

[John S Miller]

And just to add, tape if you can't get it onto hard drive.

the only problems are I know tapes can suddenly develop water marks which you'd need an unknown digitaol restoration tool to repair.

[peteseatonwsmuk]

to add ive just got a new imac (with big screen) that plays DVDR's

and if it doesnt play on a newer DVD player it WILL play on that

[Deleted]

When we're coming to copying footage to DVD, there's plenty of reasons I wouldn't do it. In addition to the questionable stability of recordable DVDs, I often find that the bit rates aren't good enough either. While you can encode decent quality footage with no artifacts, when I made some tests, copying footage some of my VHS footage to DVD, I found that even at 9mbps there's often noticable blocking and artifacts, even on footage that's only moderatly noisy. It's certinally not how I want my older VHS footage & home videos looking (even my attempts at Hi8 footage had only marginally better results).

I've found that DV is a much better format for transferring to, the artifacts are minimal and I've never come accross any blocking, even from some of my noisier footage.

The fact is though, at the moment I have no plans at all to transfer any of my VHS or Hi8 footage over to DV, both for time & cost reasons. It's something I'll get round to eventually though, I'm planning on using both MiniDV tapes and duping it to HD (problem is, when I transfer DV footage to the computer the Date/Time metadata is lost. Is there any way to keep this?).

[Deleted]

larrydutch said:

And while all VHS will play in all VHS VCRs, not all DVDs play in every DVD machine.

That's not always true. From around 1997-2000, we had an old, dodgy VCR that was given to us by my sister and I was never able to play back stuff recorded on that VCR easily on any other machine (I still have a couple of tapes recorded on there though). I have to mess with the tracking and I can never totally get it right no matter what I do (I can sometimes get it right on SP recordings, but LP recordings are next to impossible without at least some tracking noise). When that VCR still worked, I resorted to using that to play back those tapes, as it was the only one that would play them properly. It's the only time I've really encountered that problem though, but I'm sure others have had similar experiences.

[Robert Manners]

andy said:

I have said it before and I will say it again:

Don't get rid of the VCR and the tapes.

I have a computer DVD recorder and a DVD player. But I am under no illusions about such matters.

Yours,

Yes anything of real value I still put on to S-VHS as well. One day I will struggle to find new machines, parts and of course new tapes. Will DVD have improved by that time I ask myself?

[William Martin]

I should think it will be long gone by then.

[markboulton]

My personal experience is that my DVD+R archive is slowly reaching about 1/3 unplayable now (going back only to mid-2004). I've found there is no particular pattern relating to brand or storage.

I basically have two storage 'systems' - one is one of those canvas albums with plastic pockets inside to hold the discs, and one is a couple of shelves where I have pairs of discs stored in half-width, full-height, double-disc snap packs.

I have found neither storage system has a part to play in reliability either. Sometimes a disc that has been totally unplayed for a year and stored in a snap pack (and has therefore had no physical contact) doesn't even load the menu, whereas a disc that I have slid out of the album (and has probably accumulated some dust around the top of the pocket) plays fine. On another day however, the situation can be reversed.

I've had already had to re-author half-a-dozen or so discs, before taking the decision that I would no longer transfer any VHS material to DVD - only using DVD for new material. I just make myself accept that some of this may not play in the future, but hope that modern stuff won't be quite so irreplacable.

As a lot of the stuff I record though is 'actuality' (news bulletins, presentation and advert selections) there is stuff that I wouldn't be able to buy in the shops, but what I'm considering doing in the next month or two is looking around for a half-decent S-VHS machine and recording using S-Video from my PVR instead of to DVD+R. I may even make LP backups of some items.

In fact, I actually still opted to record Live 8 straight to VHS (and in LP too) rather than split it onto half-a-dozen DVDs all of which would suffer from compression. I recorded it off analogue, too, because I found the LED back-screen on stage displayed nasty mushing on the digital transmission.

[lfbarfe]

markboulton said:

My personal experience is that my DVD+R archive is slowly reaching about 1/3 unplayable now (going back only to mid-2004). I've found there is no particular pattern relating to brand or storage.

The trouble I'm having is (so far) with a particular make and type of discs (Ritek G05), even to the point of them all being from the same batch (serial numbers beginning H4-07L...). It's a pain in the arse, but I've managed to rescue quite a lot of the stuff thanks to DVD Decrypter and 3 different DVD drives. Most of my earliest discs play perfectly well, and on those that don't, the problem is with the authoring and the drive I used at the time.

I basically have two storage 'systems' - one is one of those canvas albums with plastic pockets inside to hold the discs, and one is a couple of shelves where I have pairs of discs stored in half-width, full-height, double-disc snap packs.

I just use the canvas albums.

I've had already had to re-author half-a-dozen or so discs, before taking the decision that I would no longer transfer any VHS material to DVD - only using DVD for new material.

I check up on random discs in the collection every now and again, to make sure there's no trouble. I think that everyone's in the same position now - making sure that our archives can be transferred to other formats as necessary.

As a lot of the stuff I record though is 'actuality' (news bulletins, presentation and advert selections)... I may even make LP backups of some items.

You could also consider Divx or Xvid encodes for backing up.

In fact, I actually still opted to record Live 8 straight to VHS (and in LP too) rather than split it onto half-a-dozen DVDs all of which would suffer from compression. I recorded it off analogue, too, because I found the LED back-screen on stage displayed nasty mushing on the digital transmission.

I put Live 8 on 8 discs, all Ritek G05s with the serial number beginning H4-07L...

[Robert Manners]

Gosh some of my stuff is mega rare, I live in fear of it not playing. To hear that even the best Ri-disk can fail to play is a bit too worrying like!

[Dave Andrews]

Colour film, CD-R and so presumably DVD-R all use dyes and the things that are death to dyes are light, so keep them in the dark; and temperature, so keep them cool (although freezing is probably not a good idea). Certainly keep any cabinet where the Sun can't shine on it, and away from any radiators as well.

It occurs to me that one of these Wine Cabinet-Coolers that are being marketed these days would make a good storage cabinet, provided you blanked out the glass on the door.

[Robert Manners]

daveandrews said:

Colour film, CD-R and so presumably DVD-R all use dyes and the things that are death to dyes are light, so keep them in the dark; and temperature, so keep them cool (although freezing is probably not a good idea). Certainly keep any cabinet where the Sun can't shine on it, and away from any radiators as well.

It occurs to me that one of these Wine Cabinet-Coolers that are being marketed these days would make a good storage cabinet, provided you blanked out the glass on the door.

Gosh when you read this you know your 'VHS' tapes were realy your best friend after all!!!!!!

[hartley967]

The latest digital cinemas will have movies loaded either from the air waves direct from Hollywood or hard drives or digital tape.

However when the film has finished distribution and its put back on the shelf
it wil be archived....on 16 or 35mm film

So the humble telerecording lives on

[John S Miller]

I think another comment I'd add about discs is a friend pointed out often the playablility of an individual disc can vary between players as to unpredictability of smooth playing or chapter jumping. Computers are usually your best bet for seamless playback.

I've found that +RW DVDs have actually been better survivors than +R or once write discs now 2 years into the phenomenon. I suppose 'good old' tape back up may be a good precaution. I've recently had a friend rescue a once write only disc that went wrong as he made a back up for someone. When the disc suddenly went off I was able to make a new copy back from the copy he made.

[Deleted]

Worrying, isn't it!