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Post by andyeves on Nov 11, 2023 17:33:38 GMT
Why, for a film that was "supposed" stolen 4000 miles away? Phil Morris claims an Aussie fan has it. That's interesting as the last I heard, he was pointing the finger at the Fitzroy crowd.
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Post by andyeves on Oct 14, 2023 16:45:51 GMT
As has already been highlighted, this thread is largely re-treading old ground, but I’m going to briefly recount a personal experience that has parallels … Back in 1989, my then-lodger kept his VHS tapes in the lounge. One afternoon, when he went upstairs to his bedroom soon after I’d come home unexpectedly, he took one tape with him. After he’d gone out, I located where he’d hidden it and it contained the filthiest most depraved porn! Had he left it with the others, I’d never have even considered checking its content. But by moving it to a more secure area, he drew attention to it, which piqued my curiosity as to what was so special about this particular tape … If this thread is largely re-treading old ground, Andy, then please do shoot the messenger who started this thread. It would be my absolute pleasure, Andy! Seriously though, although it is re-treading old ground to a certain extent, there are many new members since it was last discussed including the OP.
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Post by andyeves on Oct 14, 2023 11:16:20 GMT
Does anyone really believe such a haul would be kept secret for so long? Also, unless someone really had done the impossible and dug up a landfill site with precise coordinates, how on earth did all of that end up stored away somewhere for so long? Well Phil did say that he was planning to hire a JCB to dig up possible disposal sites, so who knows ... LOL! Well, I'm rumblin' in this JCB I'm 5 years old and my dad's giant sitting beside me And the engine rattles my bum like berserk While we're singin, "Don't forget your shovel if you want to go to work!"
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Post by andyeves on Oct 14, 2023 7:31:28 GMT
In the above linked thread, Paul V writes something I’m struggling to understand - not what he said, but *why* he’d say it ? I’m absolutely sure Paul wouldn’t resent Missing Episode Hunter’s efforts to find missing episodes, but why warn against finding episodes? If it changes the prints’ fate, why is it safer to leave episodes to degrade in the heat of Jos, until they are ALL chucked out as worthless ? Would it have been better for these prints not to be discovered, but EOW3 would’ve still been there, if we could have our time again ? Most importantly, how could anyone have done anything differently based on following Paul’s circumspect advice ? He's referring to the fact that Phil instructed his employee to move this batch to a more secure area, which he did so in full view of the Jos station manager ... which drew attention to them ... which piqued his curiosity as to what was so special about this particular batch of films ... As has already been highlighted, this thread is largely re-treading old ground, but I’m going to briefly recount a personal experience that has parallels … Back in 1989, my then-lodger kept his VHS tapes in the lounge. One afternoon, when he went upstairs to his bedroom soon after I’d come home unexpectedly, he took one tape with him. After he’d gone out, I located where he’d hidden it and it contained the filthiest most depraved porn! Had he left it with the others, I’d never have even considered checking its content. But by moving it to a more secure area, he drew attention to it, which piqued my curiosity as to what was so special about this particular tape …
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Post by andyeves on Oct 14, 2023 7:23:47 GMT
In the above linked thread, Paul V writes something I’m struggling to understand - not what he said, but *why* he’d say it ? At the beginning of all of this, before Phil tracked the films down I told him that if he found anything, he'd be putting the films in danger. When something lies undisturbed for 40 or so years, it's safe. As soon as you change its circumstances, you change its fate. What happened to Web 3 is the perfect example of that fact. I’m absolutely sure Paul wouldn’t resent Missing Episode Hunter’s efforts to find missing episodes, but why warn against finding episodes? If it changes the prints’ fate, why is it safer to leave episodes to degrade in the heat of Jos, until they are ALL chucked out as worthless ? Would it have been better for these prints not to be discovered, but EOW3 would’ve still been there, if we could have our time again ? Most importantly, how could anyone have done anything differently based on following Paul’s circumspect advice ? He's referring to the fact that Phil instructed his employee to move this batch to a more secure area, which he did so in full view of the Jos station manager ... which drew attention to them ... which piqued his curiosity as to what was so special about this particular batch of films ...
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Post by andyeves on Oct 13, 2023 18:30:21 GMT
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Post by andyeves on Oct 13, 2023 16:08:25 GMT
I don’t think anyone reasonable will blame him for the loss of WOF3, and that it was purely due to naivety. I’ll be a more charitable than you about his over-optimistic comments in that I accept that this was also down to his naivety, not realising how DW fandom works … unaware that he’d only need to wipe his arse for fanatics to take that as a hint that he’d found another missing episode. Well each to their own Andy. That said, a fitting, illustrative microcosm of Phil’s dubious antics post 2013 can be found in an old social media post of his in which he, like many other fans, marked the annual anniversary of ‘Who’s very first transmission back in 1963. Naturally everyone else posted a picture of the 1st Doctor, Barbara, Ian and Susan as one would expect but not Phil. No, he decided to upload a telesnap from the currently missing episode 3 from Evil of the Daleks instead …Personally I don’t ascribe wilful mischief like that to mere naivety tbh… Maybe I am being too charitable but regardless, no one should assume that it is just a few gullible, over-zealous & easily excitable fans that have read too much into Phil's comments over the years. There's that notorious Steve Roberts interview during which he states that it is his belief that Phil has definitely (yes, definitely) recovered Marco Polo ... based solely on the positive nature of Phil's comments.
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Post by andyeves on Oct 13, 2023 11:07:19 GMT
I certainly wouldn’t put Phil down (and I don’t appreciate it when people do) as he’s an absolute hero when it comes to the restoration of lost TV, and if I read too much into what he says then I tend to blame myself for it. But I have learnt to take what he says with a pinch of salt. So when he says with total certainty that the Jos station manager was bribed but provides no evidence, I prefer the more likely scenario that he rather naively drew attention to it. Not sure I’d define it as putting him down as such but merely acknowledgement that because Phil’s essentially a public figure he must therefore expect public criticism (and indeed praise when applicable) as a consequence. I think most would agree though that in the direct aftermath of 2013 Phil revelled in his relative celebrity a little too much when discretion would’ve been more prudent. He knew that fans, emboldened by the riches he had returned, hung on his every word and thus proceeded to shamelessly exploit their/our hopes with some wildly positive/optimistic cryptic comments that were evidently baseless. For what it’s worth though I certainly don’t blame him for Web3’s disappearance as even if he did betray a little too much excitement when he found the cans I know I would’ve done the same (and worse) in his position! I don’t think anyone reasonable will blame him for the loss of WOF3, and that it was purely due to naivety. I’ll be a more charitable than you about his over-optimistic comments in that I accept that this was also down to his naivety, not realising how DW fandom works … unaware that he’d only need to wipe his arse for fanatics to take that as a hint that he’d found another missing episode.
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Post by andyeves on Oct 13, 2023 2:55:05 GMT
The private collector wanted the one that has the Brigader's first apperance. Even Philip agrees that's the most likely reason why WoF 3 was taken. Ah yes I remember that particular Web3 theory, and sadly it smacks of deluded fan ‘logic’. Far more likely is the alternative explanation: the station employee was sufficiently curious, suspected there might be some monetary value attached to these neglected film cans and so randomly light-fingered one of them for further investigation… On a related note and, keeping with the contentious ‘stolen to order’ theme, didn’t Phil dramatically claim at one point that he knew where Web3 had ended up and threatened to publicly name the new owner if he didn’t play ball? He (Phil) never did of course (assuming I haven’t misremembered - understandable as Phil used to say a helluva lot back then, much of it contradictory to previous accounts/statements )…. Starburst Aug 2016: Phil said about WOF3 " But we’re on top of that. That is not going to stay missing for too long. So … we are working on that." If taken at face value, this would imply that he not only knew who has it but was close to securing it. I now believe he was simply sending a strong message to whoever had it, that he wasn’t going to let this drop and was closing in on them … perhaps in the hope of spooking them to an extent that they’d hand it back. Late 2018: When announcing a batch of non-DW returns, he said " I am positive more Doctor Who will turn up." … which I thought may include WOF3 but that was almost 5 years ago. Wind forward to Apr 2020, his WOF3 comments were watered down to simply: “ we do have an idea of where that episode is” (but he would not be publicly naming anyone). The last I heard from him was Jan 2021 when he made a seemingly baseless tweet that WOF3 had taken by a member of the Fitzroy Tavern Who crowd, something that he was unwilling or unable to back up. I certainly wouldn’t put Phil down (and I don’t appreciate it when people do) as he’s an absolute hero when it comes to the restoration of lost TV, and if I read too much into what he says then I tend to blame myself for it. But I have learnt to take what he says with a pinch of salt. So when he says with total certainty that the Jos station manager was bribed but provides no evidence, I prefer the more likely scenario that he rather naively drew attention to it.
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Post by andyeves on Oct 12, 2023 21:20:29 GMT
For anyone who hasn't already, I'd recommend having a listen to: Ty pe 40 • A Doctor Who Podcast #70 - Missing Episodes with Richard Molesworth
It's a cracking & insightful interview and he gives his take on the WOF3 debacle. Also available here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGFiPIsVaEsAt what min mark is this WOF3 take, please? Around 41 minute mark.
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Post by andyeves on Oct 12, 2023 15:13:40 GMT
Not simplest. If it was one of his men, then he knew the location of the other 11, so why didn't he steal those also? Simplest, is the Nigerian didn't know what he had and lost it. But all of this falls into beliefs and not facts. The private collector wanted the one that has the Brigader's first apperance. Even Philip agrees that's the most likely reason why WoF 3 was taken. Actually Phil is on record as saying that he believes it was totally random, and it could just have easily been WOF1 or EOTW3 that he took (and more's the pity that it wasn't).
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Post by andyeves on Oct 12, 2023 6:41:08 GMT
For anyone who hasn't already, I'd recommend having a listen to: Ty pe 40 • A Doctor Who Podcast #70 - Missing Episodes with Richard Molesworth
It's a cracking & insightful interview and he gives his take on the WOF3 debacle. Also available here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGFiPIsVaEs
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Post by andyeves on Oct 12, 2023 0:04:26 GMT
But the detail in that article doesn’t match his other accounts nor the verifiable facts available with a little searching online. It’s nonsense. Well said, Tim. The article says " No undue attention was drawn to the Doctor Who prints by myself or any of my staff ...", although it does also acknowledge " I instructed one of my trusted team to ensure the Doctor Who prints were hidden." Phil has confirmed (during interviews) that the film cans were snaffled whilst that batch was being moved to a secure area for safekeeping. In other words, he drew attention to it!!!
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Post by andyeves on Oct 11, 2023 14:49:30 GMT
So if Phil is convinced that the Jos guy was tapped up and that it is in private hands, that’s good enough for you even though he’s provided no evidence for this other than his interpretation of the manager’s actions & subsequent words. Fair enough. I defend people’s right to form their opinion in whatever manner they so choose, even if it based solely on trust, gut feel, flipping a coin ... Just providing they’re honest about what their opinion is based on. Here you are, Andy, just to refresh your memory - www.doctorwhonews.net/2015/10/photograph-of-complete-web-of-fear-and.html"I defend people’s right to form their opinion in whatever manner they so choose, even if it based solely on trust, gut feel, flipping a coin ... Just providing they’re honest about what their opinion is based on..." - Sure, sure. When you go home, just look at your TV, and tell yourself that, in your opinion it's actually a washing machine. And then try putting your dirty linen in it - for a fact. Have you been smoking something?!? I could tell myself that my TV is my washing machine, but it wouldn't be my opinion as I wouldn't actually believe it! But if you genuinely believe that your TV is your washing machine then I'll defend your right to hold this opinion, even though I'd disagree to the point of thinking that you're totally deranged! To defend one's right to form their opinion in whatever way they so choose doesn't mean that I agree with them or think they're correct ... or I don't think they're totally off their head!!! Anyway, you've further convinced me of what was already fairly evident, that you're totally incapable of having an intellectual, mature & reasoned discussion and so I'll now allow you to have the last word ... See if you can prove me wrong by saying something that is actually intellectual.
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Post by andyeves on Oct 11, 2023 14:14:53 GMT
So if Phil is convinced that the Jos guy was tapped up and that it is in private hands, that’s good enough for you even though he’s provided no evidence for this other than his interpretation of the manager’s actions & subsequent words.
Fair enough. I defend people’s right to form their opinion in whatever manner they so choose, even if it based solely on trust, gut feel, flipping a coin ... Just providing they’re honest about what their opinion is based on.
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