Ace St.John
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Post by Ace St.John on Feb 3, 2024 16:33:51 GMT
The b&w print is of interest - and not just for the omitted scene. The original colour film would have been transferred onto 2” VT for broadcast and then telerecorded onto 16mm b&w to give us the telerecording we have. The b&w print should have a larger frame area and may well be sharper, not having gone through several stages to result in a telerecording. Exactly. Also, since it does contain a larger area and cleaner image, it would be suitable to transfer the scenes to the restored footage when it's fully restored. Plus, if the B&W film sequence print has the Chroma dots, we can use the color recovery method on it while the rest of the episodes gets manually colorized. A black and white sequence print would not have chromadots by nature of how chromadots come into being ie: via taking a b&w film of a tv monitor where they forgot to filter out the colour information. So the three RGB dots on the screen will all have different values to be counter worked out from the b&w telerecording. If it was film , filmed on location there wouldn't be any chromadots because there is no monitor involved. I can easily explain this in more details via private message. A basic understanding of how television was made back then would make it all clear it is quite simple really but without knowing the technology back then it won't be discernable
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Ace St.John
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Post by Ace St.John on Dec 25, 2023 20:19:45 GMT
My Christmas wish would be for a recovery of either a cyberman episode or a dalek episode. Or even further improvement on The Daleks with a stored field upgrade or otherwise
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Ace St.John
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Post by Ace St.John on Dec 21, 2023 2:52:56 GMT
Question: Why didn't BBC Enterprises give their DW prints to the BFI? Answer: because the receptionist was dottled that day and sent the prints to the FBI. 🦁👍
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Ace St.John
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Post by Ace St.John on Nov 5, 2023 18:41:54 GMT
Do we know if it is black and white or colour? Good news indeed, regardless. B&W, but the colour information is in the chroma dots (as noted) , and should be recoverable. If they can secure funding to restore the colour from the chromadots. Iirc from what was said on the Film is Fabulous discussion on YouTube that included Steve Roberts
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Ace St.John
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Post by Ace St.John on Nov 3, 2023 7:57:08 GMT
Awwh see I knew ep 1 of ROT would turn up eventually. Its curious that the orphaned episodes of stories that they have animated arnt on there. And it's curious power of the daleks is in black and white (which is my personal preference) but most the other stories seem to be the colour animations. Still it's all free do can't be ungrateful just interesting choices and no pattern to them. The latest animated version of Power of the Daleks - the special edition was only in black & white
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Ace St.John
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Post by Ace St.John on Oct 27, 2023 20:17:15 GMT
I guess only the people who worked there would know possibly?
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Ace St.John
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Post by Ace St.John on Oct 22, 2023 7:08:05 GMT
So I was looking at the color state of Pertwee episodes on the missingepisodes.blogspot page and the Broadwcast site to see if any countries had bought any Color copies of Third Doctor episodes that currently survive as 16mm B/W episodes. I noticed, alongside other episodes that survive as NTSC, that Canada and the United States DID in fact buy NTSC prints of - The Silurians
- The Ambassadors of Death
- Terror of the Autons
- The Mind of Evil
- The Daemons
and that that at late as February 1978, BBC Canada had all of them in their Archive (CKVU and TVOntario only loan the episodes from BBC Canada). Also, its worth to note that Canada would buy the episodes it and the US wanted to screen from the BBC and it would loan the US episodes it requested to air, even if Canada didn't air them. Therefore, Canada had all of these NTSC prints at some point. By the time Ian Levine and Sue Malden contacted BBC Canada in late 1978/early 1979, the episodes listed above have disappeared, presumably junked.
Also, a reminder that the off air color copies of all of the episodes listed (except the Mind of Evil) had been recorded by Tom Lundie, a US friend of Ian Levine, who used a Betamax recorder and recorded Doctor Who serials off air from broadcasts in the United States in 1977, they year before the NTSC prints "disappeared". While it's believed that these episodes were likely junked, it's also possible that someone could have taken them home with them. I hopeful that someone in Canada or the US still has the NTSC prints of those episodes somewhere in their storage. After all, the last NTSC prints to be returned were those of the serial "Inferno" in 1985. There's nothing wrong with the the Chroma-dot color recovery or the D3 color restoration (paring the 16mm prints with the off-air Color signal), but I think if we do find the missing NTSC prints of the episodes listed above, it can get a cleaner/better result than the surviving 16mm prints. After all, the other Pertwee episodes that survive in NTSC had been RSC'd back to PAL by the Doctor Who Restoration Team (with some detail from the 16mm added on for the Blu-Ray release). I'm hopeful that someone could return those NTSC prints back to the BBC, so we can get the Pertwee episodes as close to their lost PAL prints as possible. In all due respect to you they're not 'prints' which you are referring to. A print is a film print is made by light striking the celluloid then a process washes the salts away where the light is struck. you can hold them to the light and see the images of each frame. The NTSC versions of Jon Pertwee were on magnetic tape Video tape. Not a print . So your thread title needs edited slightly. If you said "copies" for example: "Fate of NTSC copies of early Pertwee episodes?" that would be okay 👍 and still be within applicable terminology, however tapes 📼 would the absolute correct word to use in place of "print" when your talking about the NTSC copies .theyre videotapes📼 not 🎞️ prints. Prints are film prints. NTSC copies you refer to are on video tape therefore "tapes" is the correct 💯 terminology. Thus, this would be the correct way to phrase your thread title: "Fate of NTSC tapes of early Pertwee episodes?" Cheers for your thread I have learned something as in that some video tape copies of materials were intentionally kept in that form --- rather than merely to be taped over again very soon.... so I do get where you are coming from . Would be awesome if something missing was recovered on video tape again. I think the last PAL 625 line video tape recovery was Death to the Daleks Episode one sent from Dubai to BBC enterprises in the 90s, [loading bay,rain anecdote?]. Yes for sure NTSC broadcast standard 525line video tape copies of episodes where the colour was restored from off air domestic sources , would be an upgrade for sure . *Video tape is a plastic tape coated in magnetic oxide that an electronic signal could be recorded on. Video tape was often wiped and reused in the industry because video tape was expensive and also designed to be reused
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Ace St.John
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Post by Ace St.John on Aug 22, 2023 9:14:30 GMT
Question: Why didn't BBC Enterprises give their DW prints to the BFI?
Answer: because the receptionist was dottled that day and sent the prints to the FBI.
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Post by Ace St.John on Aug 13, 2023 2:35:40 GMT
I know this thread is a bit old but I'm curious if the upcoming Underwater Menace animation will be using these audio tapes. IIRC there was some audio quality issues on the existing recons. Would be exciting to start seeing the fruits of these discoveries. I believe that Episodes 1 and 4 of the upcoming Underwater Menace animation will still use Graham Strong's recordings for those episodes, but Episodes 2 and 3 will use the audio from the original prints in the BBC Archive. However, any areas of damage will likely use the Randolph Tapes to repair those areas, though recordings made by David Holman and Richard Landen may also be used for repair. Why do you believe that the Randolph tapes will be used to patch episodes 1 & 4 rather than Graham Strong's but not used for 2&3 ? They might include continuity announcement from the Randolph tapes as they did with Power special edition
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Post by Ace St.John on Aug 5, 2023 22:47:28 GMT
and here is the whole episode colorized with a different a.i programme by the two people who created the colourisation program on computer. Almost all b&w episodes have been done by the same colorists and are available right now on Bitchute and Internet Archive www.bitchute.com/video/MhwlNyiX32p2/
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Post by Ace St.John on Aug 5, 2023 14:56:55 GMT
... Some of these guys wouldnt take a few hundred thousand pounds if you waved a suitcase of money in front of their noses - they would rather have the knowledge THEY have it & YOU dont. ... I mean, I hear you, and I do wonder whether this is really what's going on inside people's heads, thinking that doing something awful can make you special. It all sounds a bit bitter and twisted to me. I suppose this is the sort of sentiment that motivated the guy who shot John Lennon. Not only did he kill a man, he took away from the rest of the world someone who was very special. Who knows what John Lennon would have done had been alive to this day? I guess in killing him the killer felt he was special, because he denied us the pleasure of a wonderful and creative man. All a bit horrible, really, and certainly a sentiment that I would want to distance myself from, rather than imagine we were like-minded. Richard Unless the killer was brainwashed by the C.I.A to carry out the killing. Okay sorry admin. ahem back on topic now .
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Post by Ace St.John on Jul 17, 2023 22:35:59 GMT
Obviously it can be colourised, but it shouldn't be. It was shot in B/W, intended to be seen in B/W on TVs that only showed B/W images. The director, set designer, costumer designer, all put effort into creating images that would look good in B/W. Probably they didn't put as much effort into it as Orson Welles did for Citizen Kane, but still, it should be seen in B/W. I believe in this statement also . It's true. Some productions more than others gained an atmosphere from the lighting for b&w and there is something special about monochrome a quality that has its own magic. However I would love to have the option to see the Dalek serials and a few others in colour - only if done really well. Of all of them The Chase for example doesn't take itself seriously at all anyway and this made it a brilliant candidate for auto colourisation in the version on the Internet archive and Bitchute. I would insist on the black and white version available as default. Some colourisations are better than others. Yea Citizen Kane was made to be in black and white. Would seem wrong for it to be in colour and that is the very same kind of quandry that a part of my mind sees the monochrome era of Who (1963-1969) from this perspective also . I really did enjoy autocoloured version of The Daleks on internet archive. And I would definitely buy a official version if it was as good or better
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Post by Ace St.John on Jul 16, 2023 2:44:34 GMT
Whether it's just clips or part of a larger project, the thing the Mirror reported on or something else entirely, I am curious to see the results. It's not going to be for everyone but anything that gets eyes on 60s Who is a plus in my eyes especially for younger fans who may struggle with black and white content. Some colourisations turn out to be alright. For example Stuart Humpreys , Keiran Highman, Richard Tipple and quite a few of them and some of the auto colourisations of whole serials on internet archive and bitchute are alright in a fuzzy off air type way especially all the Dalek episodes they have - which is all of them. Type in google: Doctor Who in color internet archive the daleks Those are just autocolour program created for purpose by a pair of computer programers. The colourisations of Stuart Humphrey aka Babelcolour on YouTube are awesome.
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Post by Ace St.John on Jul 15, 2023 23:07:25 GMT
Intriguing that they say "never before seen clips of colourised Doctor Who". So I will be interested to see what stories the clips are from and how well colourisations turn out to be.
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Post by Ace St.John on Jul 11, 2023 1:08:54 GMT
So this is about the print so what happened to the negative? And were there a few DMP episodes in film library or just 1-2 . I am guessing Enterprises would have had copies of DMP at this point
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