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Post by Stephen Mitchell on Mar 9, 2014 17:24:33 GMT
Surprised a lot of people think Marco Polo could well be overrated. I do hope we are soon in a position to see. Personally I think the visuals could be spellbinding and it'll live up to its hype. We live in hope! I think 7 could be a drag. Slow paced if you like that thing. Could be a story that starts well, drops off a bit and then picks up. I think Enemy suffered this a bit. I'm a huge fan of the slower, more measured pace of the classic series, and I think this is perhaps the main reason why I've never warmed to the new series. That said, I think the 7-parters do drag a lot, even "The Daleks". I hope that's not a heretical statement!
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Post by Darren Jones on Mar 9, 2014 22:45:57 GMT
For me, underrated: 'The Myth Makers' (Hartnell - witty, high-brow comedy) and 'Enemy of the World' (Troughton - always loved the audio and now the visuals back it up!) or, if you want one still missing, 'The Macra Terror' (Troughton - being anarchic, would love to see him in neat clothes before being messed up again).
Overrated, hmmm... difficult. For Hartnell I'd go for 'The Celestial Toymaker' purely because I couldn't engage with the audio and not much seems to happen; For Troughton I'd have to choose 'Fury from the deep' because, again (Oak and Quill attack aside), nothing seems to happen on the audio.
However, I never really liked 'The Web of Fear' on audio neither (seemed to be plodding, and difficult to imagine what was happening) but, watching the episodes on iTunes (then DVD), has changed my mind and I now think it is an exemplary instruction in how to do claustrophobia and keep the tension mounting, the viewers guessing and the monsters looming!
So what do I know!
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Post by Darren Jones on Mar 9, 2014 23:26:09 GMT
As an addendum to my last post, I'll now try the non-missing stories. Underrated: For Hartnell it has to be 'The Gunfighters' (a story with its tongue firmly planted in its cheek - you can see on screen how gleefully Hartnell delivers his lines and relishes the comedy); for Troughton 'The Dominators' (love the squabbling between the two dominators and the Doctor's ability to be one step ahead throughout the story).
Overrated: 'The Aztecs' for Hartnell (blasphemy, I know); but to me, the Doctor (and companions) arrive, have a bit of a disagreement with the natives, then all is back to the status quo when they leave having achieved nothing (apart from getting engaged!). For Troughton 'The War Games' (again, blasphemy); nine episodes of running through (faux) history and psychedelic sets before the interesting stuff starts in ep 10 and, even then, it is a bit of a let down.
Good thread btw. We could continue through all the Doctors IF that isn't considered too off-topic.
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Greg Glenn
Member
Carl Palmer art! Tank!
Posts: 55
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Post by Greg Glenn on Mar 10, 2014 7:41:38 GMT
You can't really judge a story by listening to the soundtrack. The soundtrack alone is only half of the whole.
This is not radio. All those dead spots on the audio only soundtrack mean something visual is happening.
I would think most people's imagination would create things impossible to do visually with a 60s Who budget.
Wonderful things get built up and then destroyed when the stories are actually seen (Tomb). But I still love this serial wires and all.
This is the reason I've never listened to any of the audio only stories.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Mar 10, 2014 7:51:47 GMT
You can't really judge a story by listening to the soundtrack. The soundtrack alone is only half of the whole. This is not radio. All those dead spots on the audio only soundtrack mean something visual is happening. I would think most people's imagination would create things impossible to do visually with a 60s Who budget. Wonderful things get built up and then destroyed when the stories are actually seen (Tomb). But I still love this serial wires and all. This is the reason I've never listened to any of the audio only stories. Tomb for me is good, but too confined to a few sets. Now enemy and web !
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Post by Andrew Parker on Mar 10, 2014 11:21:25 GMT
However, slow tedious, overrated, underrated they are, I still want to see them.
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Post by Simon Jailler on Mar 10, 2014 17:25:20 GMT
I can't understand the great wave of love for Marco Polo as a story but then I grievously and woefully underestimated Enemy of the World and Underwater Menace.
I love the Cybermen but The Invasion is vastly overrated - it plods along and for all those Cybermen and a mass invasion, there is not enough action so I don't need to see any more missing episodes of it. The Tardis will have to remain invisible.
I suspect The Smugglers is a much understimated historical story and The Space Pirates a much underestimated slice of space opera albeit 2 eps too long but I won't complain if I get to see any more of it.
I hope I would not be let down in any way by any of Highlanders, Fury, Snowmen or Evil which are all high in my estimation. Any more Troughton whatsoever would be a blessing but I would n't be surprised if some more Hartnell proved a let down. I'd always grown up understanding Celestial Toymaker was a nailed on classic but it seems otherwise from all sorts of people hereabouts.
Thanks for posting this thread.
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Post by Simon Jailler on Mar 10, 2014 17:32:31 GMT
As an addendum to my last post, I'll now try the non-missing stories. Underrated: For Hartnell it has to be 'The Gunfighters' (a story with its tongue firmly planted in its cheek - you can see on screen how gleefully Hartnell delivers his lines and relishes the comedy); for Troughton 'The Dominators' (love the squabbling between the two dominators and the Doctor's ability to be one step ahead throughout the story). Overrated: 'The Aztecs' for Hartnell (blasphemy, I know); but to me, the Doctor (and companions) arrive, have a bit of a disagreement with the natives, then all is back to the status quo when they leave having achieved nothing (apart from getting engaged!). For Troughton 'The War Games' (again, blasphemy); nine episodes of running through (faux) history and psychedelic sets before the interesting stuff starts in ep 10 and, even then, it is a bit of a let down. Good thread btw. We could continue through all the Doctors IF that isn't considered too off-topic. With you on The Aztecs. The sound track of Fury is fantastic; the pulsing throb of the weed creature is chilling and memirising. The web effects in the previous WOF are very impressive so I hope I'd not be disappointed by lots of Tiswas style foam and thrashing about on studio floors in Fury. Deary me! The War Games is awesome and then some. It sends the Second Doctor and the Crew on their way on a real high after a very patchy season. Plenty of cliff hangers, great script and concepts. Each to their own though and this is a great thread.
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Post by andyeves on Mar 10, 2014 18:59:42 GMT
Overrated - Sensorites and all of the history-based stories up to & including The Highlanders (would still love to see the missing episodes though) Underrated - Galaxy 4, Faceless Ones, Mission
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Post by lousingh on Mar 10, 2014 22:34:45 GMT
Over-rated: Marco Polo (especially here in the US, where John Peel's and Ian Levine's worship of it hold unmitigated sway; it almost can't live up to the hype) and The Celestial Toymaker (again, with their sway). Under-rated: The Savages and The Faceless Ones can't possibly be as bad as their reputations, can they?
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Post by garysrothwellx on Mar 11, 2014 1:30:04 GMT
Got to say that I think Faceless Ones is definitely under rated. Of all the audios, really enjoy this one every time. Creepy looking monster too.
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Post by Matthew Kurth on Mar 11, 2014 10:00:12 GMT
Sticking strictly to material that's missing, I think the most overrated episode is easily Tenth Planet:4. It's status derives totally from being Hartnell's last regular appearance... If there was another story between Tenth and Power, people would still want it back but it'd be more like wanting to see the missing parts of Ice Warriors back. Hell, it's my #1 wanted return and I'll admit it's because I want to see the last three minutes, from the moment Ben enters the Cybership to free Polly and the Doctor through to the end of the regeneration.
Wheel in Space I think is also overrated. The servo robot bores me and my interest in it has more to do with seeing more footage of yummy Wendy Padbury than anything else.
This group seems to have a level of general appreciation for Massacre and Macra Terror which I don't see elsewhere, so for underrated I'll give another vote for Abominable Snowmen because I think the audio only hints at the creepiness of the Intelligence in action.
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Post by Sue Butcher on Mar 11, 2014 11:25:40 GMT
Space Pirates, underrated. I saw it twice, I even like Episode 2, and no-one who hasn't seen it can ever convince me it was the worse-ever Troughton.
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Post by Greg H on Mar 11, 2014 13:38:46 GMT
Sticking strictly to material that's missing, I think the most overrated episode is easily Tenth Planet:4. It's status derives totally from being Hartnell's last regular appearance... If there was another story between Tenth and Power, people would still want it back but it'd be more like wanting to see the missing parts of Ice Warriors back. Hell, it's my #1 wanted return and I'll admit it's because I want to see the last three minutes, from the moment Ben enters the Cybership to free Polly and the Doctor through to the end of the regeneration. Wheel in Space I think is also overrated. The servo robot bores me and my interest in it has more to do with seeing more footage of yummy Wendy Padbury than anything else. This group seems to have a level of general appreciation for Massacre and Macra Terror which I don't see elsewhere, so for underrated I'll give another vote for Abominable Snowmen because I think the audio only hints at the creepiness of the Intelligence in action. I am inclined to agree with your points there. Tenth planet isn't that classic a story imo; it isn't poor, but there are such better examples of Hartnell and far better cybermen stories (Tomb for example). If it were not for the regeneration in episode 4 I don't think it would have such a cult status. Fully agree with you on Padbury; if she had made documentaries on the history of toothbrushes or something like that in the late 60s I would happily sit there......... staring lol. As for Macra, I don't think it would be the equal of some of the more highly regarded 60s stories, but I do think it would have been a fun 4 episodes; the pacing is good, the plot perfectly workable and the Macra themselves might provide a certain level of amusement (I probably shouldn't admit to laughing at certain aspects of who). The massacre, I suspect, would not offer much to me personally that I haven't gotten from other episodes, but Abominable I reckon is one of the best stories the 60s had to offer
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Post by Simon Jailler on Mar 11, 2014 16:42:42 GMT
Sticking strictly to material that's missing, I think the most overrated episode is easily Tenth Planet:4. It's status derives totally from being Hartnell's last regular appearance... If there was another story between Tenth and Power, people would still want it back but it'd be more like wanting to see the missing parts of Ice Warriors back. Hell, it's my #1 wanted return and I'll admit it's because I want to see the last three minutes, from the moment Ben enters the Cybership to free Polly and the Doctor through to the end of the regeneration. Wheel in Space I think is also overrated. The servo robot bores me and my interest in it has more to do with seeing more footage of yummy Wendy Padbury than anything else. This group seems to have a level of general appreciation for Massacre and Macra Terror which I don't see elsewhere, so for underrated I'll give another vote for Abominable Snowmen because I think the audio only hints at the creepiness of the Intelligence in action. Good call Matt on the creepy audio for the Intelligence in Abominable. That whispering tone is really chilling. The only let down for Web of Fear for me (besides Ep 3 remaining AWOL!!) was the lack of creepyness in the voice of the Intelligence when it revealed itself. I think they missed a trick there but it's still my favourite story.
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