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Post by Robbie Moubert on Jan 16, 2014 23:27:19 GMT
Can people please stop quoting John's post in it's entirety if they're only going to add a sentence or two. It's simple netiquette and really not that difficult.
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Post by Marty Schultz on Jan 16, 2014 23:39:07 GMT
If anyone wants me to ask any questions regarding ABC Sydney -60s -80s - Dr Who or otherwise - of my friend Warwick - please PM me and I will do my best to get him to answer. I'm already going to ask about the Gnomes of Dulwich and a few other things but wiser and more knowledgeable people probably have better questions than me. With all respect - people who worked in TV in that era are becoming scarcer. The fact that he still works as a TD is awesome.
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Post by Robert Lia on Jan 17, 2014 1:12:20 GMT
If one looks at the United States Library of Congress recovery's from he 1960's that were recovered a few years ago it is also possible that 60's episodes of Doctor Who were offered to the predecessor of PBS (Public Broadcasting Service) which was NET (National Educational Television) who passed on the shows. This being before Time Life Films was set up in the early 1970's to sell BBC Color programs to PBS. Perhaps after none of the US mainland stations showed an interest the BBC office in New York sold them off to AFRTS for pennies on the dollars just to make some sort of sale of them.
AFRTS was not a TV Station but it was a network like BBC,CBC,ITV ect. The prints would have them been shared among the AFRTS affiliates (Japan, South Korea, Panama, Japan, Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam , Rota Spain, Germany, Kwajalein (pacific ocean),Midway Island, Okinawa, Iceland, Cuba, U.K. ect. The United States, Army, Air Force, navy and Marine Corps had lots of overseas bases in the 60's - 80's due to the cold war. Many are closed now but many are still active
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Post by Sue Butcher on Jan 17, 2014 1:13:12 GMT
Transferring 16mm to Quad to send across Australia would also have cost penalties. A Quad tape weighs, at a reasonable guess, five times as much as a 16mm print and takes up three times the space. If the transmissions didn't have to be simultaneous, 16mm bicycling would be the most efficient method of getting film programmes around. I'd say the ABC went over to Quad and microwave distribution in the early Seventies in the lead up to the introduction of colour in 1975, not before. ABC programmes made on monochrome video were still being transferred to films up till then, probably for distribution.
(I'd just better add that ABC Perth didn't get Quad machines until 1962, so up until then programmes from Sydney must have been received on 16mm and transmitted from telecine. The question is, when exactly did Quad distribution take over, and 16mm distribution stop?)
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Post by Paul Edwards on Jan 17, 2014 1:41:49 GMT
Transferring 16mm to Quad to send across Australia would also have cost penalties. A Quad tape weighs, at a reasonable guess, five times as much as a 16mm print and takes up three times the space. If the transmissions didn't have to be simultaneous, 16mm bicycling would be the most efficient method of getting film programmes around. I'd say the ABC went over to Quad and microwave distribution in the early Seventies in the lead up to the introduction of colour in 1975, not before. ABC programmes made on monochrome video were still being transferred to films up till then, probably for distribution. It would be interesting to get TV guides for the 1960s for (say) Melbourne and Sydney. If the same episode was being broadcast simultaneously in both cities, given what Sue says above, may indicate that additional copies were made internally by the ABC...
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Post by Marty Schultz on Jan 17, 2014 1:43:18 GMT
I'm just repeating what I have been told. He has stated that the microwave up until the mid-late 70s was far too expensive for serials. Typically it was used for 'important' news etc thats currency as such was immediate. He states that the cheapest way was to courier quads. I can ask him to clarify but IIRC they were couriered from sydney to the destination. Any returns were done by mail by train. Which seemed to imply multiple dubs being sent out simultaneously rather than a single print or dub being sent from location to location. Now this is forty to fifty years ago. However this information (and far more) has been discussed between myself - Warwick and another gentleman who is ex-national archives and a broadcast engineer. This other gentleman absolutely confirms (to the best of his knowledge) that what Warwick states was standard practice at the time. I know that you guys only have my word on this but I am more than happy to provide corroborating info via PM on said people and myself.
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Post by Brad Phipps on Jan 17, 2014 1:47:35 GMT
.... this lot would mean that the Aussies had been copying whole stories for the troops for quite a number of years. (They surely wouldn't copy random eps) And surely they would have needed the BBC's permission to copy them for troop screening ? Also, if it were for troops, wouldn't ABC have at some point asked for them back ?. The prints - including perhaps the odd orphaned episode? - could have been sent over in the early 70s, being 'spare' copies they had lying around, rather than being struck off especially for use overseas from 1965 onwards. Might explain why we have additional copies of The Faceless Ones 1 or The Chase 1 floating about.
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Post by Marty Schultz on Jan 17, 2014 1:48:35 GMT
And from memory I specifically asked about 16mm. He was adamant - no quad. I'm guessing it's cheaper to do several quads at once - send em out. I would assume if 16mm were sent around - they would have to be individually transferred at each location for broadcast. In regards to the simultaneous broadcast - that's the exact question asked on this site - 6 months agom that got me asking Warwick questions.
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Post by John F Brayshaw on Jan 17, 2014 4:02:22 GMT
(rofl)D is A Journey to Cathay isn't it?
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Post by johnforbes on Jan 17, 2014 4:52:29 GMT
That's fair enough, but what about Ambassadors of Death? Did Gibraltar purchase it as well? The Pertwee stuff needs to be considered as well.
Gibraltar did indeed buy Ambassadors. (So the assumption still holds true). Their Pertwee purchases are below. AAA Spearhead from Space BBB Doctor Who and the Silurians CCC The Ambassadors of Death EEE Terror of the Autons GGG The Claws of Axos HHH Colony in Space KKK Day of the Daleks MMM The Curse of Peladon NNN The Mutants OOO The Time Monster SSS Planet of the Daleks LLL The Sea Devils PPP Carnival of Monsters QQQ Frontier in Space RRR The Three Doctors UUU The Time Warrior
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Jan 17, 2014 4:55:36 GMT
In terms of the Australian theory, would this put the Celestial Toymaker 4 recovery under a different light at all?
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Post by Marty Schultz on Jan 17, 2014 5:15:50 GMT
In terms of the Australian theory, would this put the Celestial Toymaker 4 recovery under a different light at all? I would even suggest it puts everything under a different light. Also the first Web Part one? Where does that actually come from. My question is - how many 16mm reels that have turned up have been to attributed to a certain print - a print without labelling or documentation? Have copies been attributed to say the ABC or NZ - only because of censor cut - cross referencing etc? Have we all been missing something in plain sight? Assuming this was this etc..?
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Post by johnforbes on Jan 17, 2014 5:31:56 GMT
In terms of the Australian theory, would this put the Celestial Toymaker 4 recovery under a different light at all? I would even suggest it puts everything under a different light. Also the first Web Part one? Where does that actually come from. My question is - how many 16mm reels that have turned up have been to attributed to a certain print - a print without labelling or documentation? Have copies been attributed to say the ABC or NZ - only because of censor cut - cross referencing etc? Have we all been missing something in plain sight? Assuming this was this etc..? I would suggest that the more pressing question regarding the orphaned eps in the archive, is "Which ones were STILL in their original cans, with a label". This is something that only a few people, such as Paul V could answer. But it would provide definitive evidence of just where the particulr prints originated. As for an idea posted earlier about ABC copying eps that were left behind. I don't think so. The Aussie crate arrived back in 1975, long after they would have been copying eps for troops. So to be honest, if, the origin of the Taiwan prints is Australia, the Aussies will almost certainly have been copying full stories. I still hold however that the Taiwan prints are Gibraltese.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Jan 17, 2014 6:59:27 GMT
Its still funny how no missing eps have bean found tho. Scattered all around the houses. You make your own mind up.
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Post by johnforbes on Jan 17, 2014 9:18:50 GMT
Hm, a guy originally said he had 8, produced 5, then later produces another 5 to make 10 instead of the original 8. But whatever,
I'm no expert at what went under the knife and what didn't, however amongst these 10, would any of them have gone under the Australian surgeon's knife ? If so, and when these prints are viewed, it would surely settle the question as to whether these prints are Gibraltese or Aussie.
If they are Aussie, bearing in mind we have stuff from seasons 1-6 here, plus Pertwee, it would seem a distinct possibility that the Aussies made a dupe of everything, and that these dupes are now turning up.
If they are Gibraltese it would seem that Gibraltar had a damn good record of stuff going walkabout given how much/little they bought. And if they are indeed Gibraltese, then the probability of some of them ending up across the border into Spain is a good possibility too.
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