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Post by Michael D. Kimpton on Dec 2, 2013 16:31:15 GMT
I wonder why the "MISSING EPISODES" forums have evolved to being dedicated to slamming everything about the Modern Series? Maybe because some people don't actually like the modern series that much? That's not a very professional answer. This is a forum dedicated to missing episodes, and since people have been criticized before about talking about Who material OTHER than missing episodes, I think it's a legitimate question.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 17:02:26 GMT
There's no obligation to like the current series though (whether it's off-topic or not)! If people don't, they can say so and aren't required to lie about it (same as if they don't like the old series).
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Post by Alan Jeffries on Dec 2, 2013 22:39:17 GMT
There's certain things that I find a little odd. I don't like Friends. I watched a couple, seen bits before shows I wanted to watch and found the whole thing completely unfunny in every sense of the word. That's my opinion and I'm sure there are thousands of people who would take the opposing view and who's to say who is right? Because I don't like it. I don't watch it. So my point is why is there a proportion of people who watch these newer Who episodes just to post that they dislike them so much? Why watch it then?
Alan
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Post by Patrick Coles on Dec 2, 2013 23:52:12 GMT
I would imagine it's because many probably feel somewhat cheated !
- the public wanted 'Doctor Who' back in 2005, that is a modern effects & better sets based version of what they recognised as the same basic show that was so popular from the early sixties to late eighties, a show that had very differing eras but was clearly linked all together in core 'attitude' and 'spirit' with essentially a decent continuity if not always perfect, the public then just wanted THAT show back duly modernised and improved production wise, but with the same spirit....
now some folk might argue 'thats what they/we got...' but it really wasn't in truth - we got a totally new show that wasn't 'aimed at everyone' at all, we got a show firmly aimed at a certain section of the viewing public - BBC's idea of youth, a crowd with short attention spans who didn't delve deeply into a storyline and were quite happy with just 'style over substance'
Thus the 2005 onwards show really has very little in common with what went before besides a Police box, a few older foes lifted from the past version, plus some character names, and a new arrangement of the theme tune.
So those who wanted/expected a more recognisable new version of 'Dr.Who' - which a number of production companies, including Verity Lambert's were 'champing at the bit' to deliver - probably feel they were cheated in that BBC handed the thing over to a writer with NO previous experience in the field...just a soapish styled writer who wrote the infantile humour of 'The Chuckle Brothers' which duly often turned up in his version of Dr.Who with 'burping wheelie bins', farty blobby aliens, and a selection of zoo animal type foes - pig men, rhino men, bee men, cat people, etc...while he used the show to regularly push his own agendas, and 'distanced' it firmly from the original in style and attitude.
The Doctor character as a result became essentially a humanised but a pretty clueless 'taxi driver' marginalised figure taking virtually a sidekick role to the teenage chav Rose that the writer was far more comfortable depicting and featuring...
Hence perhaps Chris Eccleston and producer Phil Collinson's; 'Who writes this RUBBISH ?' questions....THEIR comments not ours !
Moffat later dropped all Davies' obligatory agendas but he can't get away from centering it on 'feisty young girls', and forever featuring a smug 'know all' woman and children as he dresses up his tales with 'Timey Whimey' silly paradoxes to hide the fact on deeper thought his supposedly mega 'complex' tales fall apart like 'chinese whispers'
I think that A chunk of the viewing public steadfastly watch on in loyalty to the show's name the HOPE the show will eventually pick up and get back to resembling it's original version(s)...which may yet happen - there are a few signs notably Peter Capaldi's casting breaking through the 'age ceiling' at last...
but until that happens I think those people who preferred and had expected a returning show they could recognise as 'Dr.Who' will just continue to be frustrated and disappointed by the current programme BBC Wales offer up
we get the same bunch of guys writing the same type of thing over and over, forever plundering the old show's writers ideas and creativity...and doing very little with them..
Personally I gave up on it some years back when it became clear it was just essentially repeating the same formula over and over and over ad nausium ...i.e something along the lines of: A feisty girl companion who has a mystery about her replaces a feisty girl companion who had a mystery about her, and The Doctor fumbles from story to story one minute the big 'oncoming storm' the next utterly helpless and needing bailing out by a feisty female or a smug know all woman - also with a mystery about her - , with 're-set' buttons forever being pressed and vast CGI invasion fleets suddenly all vanishing, with vast unseen back stories to which GREAT importance is attached...but which we never see properly develop in any logical narrative with no clear or logical explanations ever given...etc...
it's just 'same old same old'...from essentially the same circle of writers, and going by that 50th anniversary thing the last two Doctors had very little to distinguish between them...much like 'Ant and Dec' while John Hurt just played an older guy, the feel of the show was utterly predictable and it appeared to have moved nowhere since 2005, unless a radical revamp is undertaken, the current show's days may be numbered as a faction within the BBC don't seem to like it and despite great viewing figures for the 50th show MORE interest seems to have been in the recently rediscovered sixties episodes than the current show - which when you stop and think about it is really not a healthy sign....
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 3, 2013 0:44:03 GMT
Yes-don't force me to place the Paul McDermott doll into the doll's house! As for facial hair-how about a Circle Beard neatly trimmed yet fashionable. He could be a bit of a dandy with a strong liking of tea (served properly, of course) and a particular flavour of digestive biscuits. I'm still not sold on an assassin-perhaps a small time thief type character, like Vila of Blake's 7 fame. Here's a potential companion that would encourage The Doctor to remain awake: Shockeye! As long as The Doctor hides at meal time, I think he will be alright. Blimey - I think Character Options would go the way of Denys Fisher if that doll came on the market! Didn't Nick Briggs' Doctor have silver teapot buttons on his coat? And a toothbrush in his top jacket pocket, if I'm not mistaken. Did rather look like a butler on holiday though. Not sure if that's just the DWM strip or the Audiovisuals series - always wanted to hear the latter, but was too slow to get on the trolley! Was thinking of Shockeye just after I posted. A sort of Swedish chef with a Time Lord fixation (and a Holmes pedigree) could be fun! Oi, why have I woken up smelling of sage and onions, hmmm? It is a traditional garni, err gift of my people, to ward off evil spirits! Throw in a sneak thief to lift his cleaver when he's not looking, and I think this could work out!
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 3, 2013 1:25:32 GMT
There's certain things that I find a little odd. I don't like Friends. I watched a couple, seen bits before shows I wanted to watch and found the whole thing completely unfunny in every sense of the word. That's my opinion and I'm sure there are thousands of people who would take the opposing view and who's to say who is right? Because I don't like it. I don't watch it. So my point is why is there a proportion of people who watch these newer Who episodes just to post that they dislike them so much? Why watch it then? Alan I think I've done this one already Alan, as has Laurence, but I'll give it a crack one more time. This thread, I threw together a bunch of things I've been thinking about since the incredibly positive response to both the new returns on iTunes and AAISAT became known. We're in the 50th year,and 2014 sees a new era, a new Doctor - and for the first time in a long while, an older bloke. Wowee! What can we take away from the big BIG global sales of Enemy and Web, in terms of how this reflects on and may influence the current show? The Beeb have every interest in capitalizing on that support, extraordinary as it seems on the surface, for 40 year old telly. It's plain we won't be seeing them revert to B&W standard definition broadcasts! But they will be very eagerly thinking hard about what it's saying about the show and the audience. Things they may not have thought about in a long time, things which suddenly open up a window everyone assumed had been jammed shut, walled up and papered over. A window to a new and yet familiar view - distinctly traditional and at the same time, willing to take risks whilst hewing to solid time-honed standards of dramatic scriptwriting. Your example of Friends is not quite a lock for me (and perhaps others) as it is not comparing like with like. If Friends had been made for decades prior to this, had indeed been a pioneer amongst its own industry, made with different creative directions, varied teams and dissimilar leads, to popular and critical acclaim, and then after a big long rest, returned to the schedules and was made to a formula so slick and precise that one was both astonished at the skill and dismayed at the quality of the fundamentals in the scripts, and made in exactly that same way for nearly an entire decade by the same people, in defiance of the strength through variety at all levels that was there from very start, only to one day discover that long-lost early episodes of what made Friends worth watching and making in the first place were - ropey visuals and all - outselling the biggest, highest rated new shows of a brighter and better century the world over, enough to give pause both to average viewers and the makers of Friends themselves as to what this might mean for the future of a major brand in their stable, and I decided to muse publicly and in a genial, hopeful way with some mates in a thread on a forum devoted to missing eps of all stripes as to what the heritage of Friends can suggest to us about where things might best go next on the basis of that unprecedented show of support for a past the current Friends approach has tried hard to downplay and deride one samey-wamey season after another, then yes, I can see how this could be a bit like what you suggest.
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 3, 2013 5:19:17 GMT
The book 'Wiped' by Richard Molesworth covers most questions people would have about missing episodes to begin with. If only it didn't keep getting made quickly obsolete with each new edition! Brave heart Toymaker - we may yet have the singular pleasure of seeing the author of that excellent tome joyfully wheezing and groaning all the way back to the printers for another update... To find that, it too, has been eclipsed by current events too improbable and wonderful to have anticipated before the copy was set!
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 3, 2013 6:46:57 GMT
Well, it's all these wretched missing episode hunters and fans. We're never happy with what we have! lol. Perhaps he should just issue an update pamphlet every six months or so! Or a stockticker app for phones?
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 3, 2013 6:53:12 GMT
I guess it would be a clumsy time to even mention Swedish meatballs, huh? yuck. Might push forward a new edition of the Doctor Who Cookbook! Could serve as an accompaniment to Cream of Scotland Yard soup! Cross-promotion and inclusivity - fans of all eras seem well served by this almost certainly unhappening new TARDIS team. And if we can come up with stuff as easy all that, surely the Beeb are cooking up something quite special for Capaldi's innings, equally satisfactory to a broader and heritage friendly audience?
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Post by Ross Mann on Dec 3, 2013 7:27:00 GMT
My young bloke absolutely loves the new stuff, and complains like his mother when I put on a classic (true who??) he is a classic example of the younger audience, who prefer bangs and flashes over decent writing... Oh, and I'm fairly certain Pertwee came across The Ice Warriors twice during his tenure.. Something about a primitive planet wanting to join some galactic federation or something wasn't it? Lol
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 3, 2013 7:38:44 GMT
My young bloke absolutely loves the new stuff, and complains like his mother when I put on a classic (true who??) he is a classic example of the younger audience, who prefer bangs and flashes over decent writing... Oh, and I'm fairly certain Pertwee came across The Ice Warriors twice during his tenure.. Something about a primitive planet wanting to join some galactic federation or something wasn't it? Lol Yep Ross, a couple of fine fellows have already beaten me in the face with a Clue Fish about the Pels and 5 Docs! Those gumblejacks really pack a wallop! Well, who knows - maybe as he gets older he can see what his Dad likes about these slow-moving snogless talkfests, along with the rest of us creaky old reprobates! And with a bit of luck, Capaldi's tenure will reflect the incredible popularity of Enemy, Web and AAISAT by moving a little closer to the old ways. In which case - once again - everybody wins!
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 3, 2013 9:16:33 GMT
Might push forward a new edition of the Doctor Who Cookbook! Could serve as an accompaniment to Cream of Scotland Yard soup! And if we can come up with stuff as easy all that, surely the Beeb are cooking up something quite special for Capaldi's innings, equally satisfactory to a broader and heritage friendly audience? My personal favourite is the Sontaran soup. As far as the BBC is concerned though. Look at what happened in the late 1980's. The Doctor was down-he rises up, and with Ace, gave us the best Doctor-companion team in years. (In my opinion). So, amazingly, after one more season, The BBC cancels it!? Happily, things are a bit rosier than they were then - although the lack of freshness from the entrenched production team on out has some familiarities. The Beeb are more likely to take a closer watch since the 50th, in light of recent successes of the old style, not least as the idea of another 16 year stretch of no revenue is a non-starter. Would they want to cancel the show just after Capaldi climbs aboard, a la McGann's lack of success with the co-pro telemovie? No. So, durability and longevity are going to be important. They already know the recipe, and they already know what happens when they ignore it. There's no reason to suppose the intent next year will remain "steady as she goes", until figures dip. There's a lot of prestige and brand recognition tied up in DW, aside from the cash. The Beeb want to protect their rep, and their golden egg laying goose. Savvy investors are proactive. An older Doctor is a start, by casting more widely than of late. I'm hopeful we'll see signs of a re-engagement with the other facets of production, that will signal an recollection of the roots of the show and a willingness to shake up expectations in 2014. That's far more likely to make for a sustainable new era for Capaldi. Otherwise, he's going to be stuck playing the equivalent of a department store Santa. Maybe he's up for that, maybe that's all that's on the table. I'd be surprised if so, and am quite dubious the Beeb think the future of Who lies in recycling the last eight years forever, regardless of how tired that looks to old and new viewers alike. So, I'm choosing to remain positive - and see the sales figures of Enemy and Web, and the incredible support for AAISAT as sufficient reason to think the Beeb will revitalize the series.
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 3, 2013 9:31:27 GMT
Might push forward a new edition of the Doctor Who Cookbook! Could serve as an accompaniment to Cream of Scotland Yard soup! And if we can come up with stuff as easy all that, surely the Beeb are cooking up something quite special for Capaldi's innings, equally satisfactory to a broader and heritage friendly audience? My personal favourite is the Sontaran soup. As far as the BBC is concerned though. Look at what happened in the late 1980's. The Doctor was down-he rises up, and with Ace, gave us the best Doctor-companion team in years. (In my opinion). So, amazingly, after one more season, The BBC cancels it!? What you need to remember though is that Michael Grade wanted rid of it. He didn't care how good or bad it was, he hated it. Every last bit of the show's downfall was staged by him (and a few others who rather sensibly never let their names go public, although there are one or two that have gotten out since). Regardless of any improvement in quality the show would have been cancelled, because he hated it.
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 3, 2013 9:39:03 GMT
Yep Ross, a couple of fine fellows have already beaten me in the face with a Clue Fish about the Pels and 5 Docs! Those gumblejacks really pack a wallop! Well, who knows - maybe as he gets older he can see what his Dad likes about these slow-moving snogless talkfests, along with the rest of us creaky old reprobates! Sorry about that 'old chap'---just peel off the scales. lol. I'm passionate about Peladon (a place that's overdue for revisiting hint hint). When I was young, I wouldn't have appreciated the Peladon stories. As I have gotten older, they have turned out to be amongst my favourites. With age comes wisdom? No worries Dan - firmed the skin around the eyes, and made a great feed with some rough cut potato chips! And yep, quite fond of Peladon myself. Just wish the rulers there seemed a little more competent than the show tended to suggest. Of course, perhaps the throne is a joke job, like President Of The Galaxy in the Hitch Hiker series. In which case, no problem...
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Post by Patrick Coles on Dec 3, 2013 9:39:38 GMT
Re Scott's point - that was not long before Grade 'jumped ship' and went over to Channel Four, which tells us everything about him !
What was Terrance Dicks saying about 'not fit for purpose...' ?
Grade's OWN opinions were totally irrelavent and should not have been a factor in what programmes were or were not commissioned, the BBC were owned by the public who clearly DID enjoy Dr.Who as it had retained a core audience over decades...thus whatever the controller may or may not have liked or watched personally should not have ever come into the question at all - should it ?
One tends to think Grade was very probably only in position thanks to his family connections (could he really be related to Lord Lew Grade ? - just imagine Michael Grade being in key position over shows such as Patrick McGoohan's show; 'The Prisoner' etc....)
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