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Post by williammcgregor on Aug 7, 2013 19:29:53 GMT
NME I have complete years 1964-1970 but maybe better to look at the new site Peter mentioned
MM I have September to December 1963 complete and the complete year 1964 but maybe better to look at the new site Peter mentioned
I can however, contribute to the forum mainly via Rave or Fabulous 208 magazines as I have complete years 1964- 1967 for both of those.
Re Disc and Music Echo I have the following issues:
1966 21/5/66 30/7/66 3/9/66
1967 29/7/67 19/8/67 26/8/67 9/9/67 23/9/67 30/9/67 14/10/67 18/11/67 9/12/67
1968 3/2/68 23/3/68 18/5/68 8/6/68 22/6/68 13/7/68 31/8/68 7/9/68 28/9/68 5/10/68 12/10/68
1969 11/1/69 18/1/69 1/2/69 15/2/69 22/2/69 22/3/69 5/4/69 19/4/69 26/4/69 3/5/69 10/5/69 17/5/69 24/5/69 31/5/69 21/6/69 28/6/69 5/7/69 19/7/69 2/8/69 23/8/69 30/8/69 6/9/69 13/9/69 20/9/69 27/9/69 11/10/69 18/10/69 25/10/69 1/11/69 8/11/69 15/11/69 22/11/69 29/11/69 6/12/69 13/12/69 20/12/69 27/12/69
1970 almost a full year apart from 7/3/70 18/4/70 15/8/70
1971 almost a full year apart from 20/3/71 27/3/71 (April missing) 8/5/71 15/5/71 22/5/71 19/6/71 26/6/71 10/7/71 17/7/71 31/7/71 9/10/71 11/12/71
1972 only have 1/1/72 8/1/72 15/1/72 12/2/72 19/2/72 11/3/72 18/3/72 25/3/72 1/4/72 8/4/72 1/7/72 29/7/72 28/10/72 18/11/72 2/12/72 23/12/72 30/12/72
Record Mirror
I have the complete year 1972 as a bound volume
If members can't see a certain issue on the new site let me know and I'll see if I can help.
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Post by williammcgregor on Aug 9, 2013 19:48:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 21:16:46 GMT
William's recent posting of information about "Gadzooks!" reveals that Manfred Mann headlined the final show in September 1965 but a report a week later states the band were banned from performing "If You Gotta Go, Go Now" on that show and "Crackerjack!" Yet they were allowed to perform it on "Top Of The Pops" (the first time on 23-09-1965 which also featured The Zombies performing the magnificent "Whenever You're Ready" - don't you just hate the Beeb for wiping it?) but does anyone know if they were banned from performing it on Thank Your Lucky Stars, Ready Steady Go or any other music shows of the time? There does exist a live performance of it from the Shindig Goes To London show which I've never actually seen but there's nothing else contemporary performance wise of this song.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 21:33:28 GMT
Also speaking of TV junkings, the Manfred's record company was no better! Unbelievably, EMI wiped or junked every single 4 track tape of the Manfreds EMI era except for one which is an alternate version of "She Needs Company" which has been mixed into stereo but remains officially unreleased despite EMI's so-called "complete" collection a few years back. Tragically with the loss of the multitracks were around 14 songs - enough for an album - none were ever mixed into mono or stereo and are lost forever. Fortunately the vast majority of what was released does exist in stereo but odd tracks like "Sha La La" and "Hubble Bubble" will forever be mono only.
It's a very different scenario with the Fontana D'Abo era though - most of the multitracks do exist and there remain various songs that remain unreleased. Many of them can be found if one looks hard enough and they're pretty fascinating to listen to. "Ha Ha Said The Clown" was never given a proper stereo mix, just a fake stereo job but there exists rough stereo mixes of the raw stage tapes which reveal that song had a completely different ending which they chopped out and repeated what they did on "Do Wah Diddy" and spliced in a repeated chorus in it's place. They simply couldn't be bothered to do that edit in stereo back in 1967!
Having said that, none of the masterful "Up The Junction" soundtrack material seems to exist in stereo or multitrack though there is a weird alternate version of the main theme song that does and was given a rough stereo mix.
Maybe this info is a little out of bounds of missing TV episodes but it does highlight that TV companies were not alone in mistreating their archives. When one thinks how much material the Manfreds cut for EMI, the fact just one multitrack tape survives is absolutely shocking!
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Post by Patrick Coles on Aug 12, 2013 8:56:01 GMT
thanks for that interesting info Phillip (not 'out of bounds' at all as far as I'm concerned) - yes it's shocking how little regard EMI had re those multi tracks..
(supposedly 'The Greatest Recording Organisation in the world' as they boasted) - I think it was John Lennon who once said: EMI stood for 'Every Mistake Imaginable'...
EMI 'misplaced' the stereo masters of a good few top artists, and have 'mis-mastered' a number of tracks in latter years, notably totally 'chopping' Tom McGuinness guitar intro to 'Mr.Anello' on the stereo CD version of 'Five Faces of Manfred Mann'...(it's still there on the stereo version on 'Soul of Mann' CD however)
EMI could still put together a strong collection of just the "non album" songs from 1963-66 period featuring Paul Jones, the exclusive EP tracks like 'Can't Believe it', 'Groovin', 'Did You Have To Do That', 'Tired of Trying...', 'Machines' etc etc, plus all the 'B' sides that were never on any albums such as 'Stay Around', 'What Did I Do Wrong', 'You're Standing By' etc , plus the odd singles songs like; 'Cock-A-Hoop', 'You Gave Me..', and the overseas tracks such as; 'My Little Red Book' and 'Dashing Away With The Smoothing Iron' etc - a full CD collection of 1963-66 era 'odds and ends' could be put together, and that stereo 'She Needs Company' you mentioned would go well on that as a bonus for Manfred collectors...yes ?
I've have always felt the conclusion of 'Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown' sounded like the 'intro' spliced onto the ending ...
a few little bits I have noticed re Manfreds recordings:
Paul Jones era: - that MFP cheapo LP 'Greatest Hits' is worth grabbing as most of the tracks are stereo versions , tho' '5-4-3-2-1' & 'Sha La La' are mono reprocessed for stereo
the mono 'You Gave Me Somebody To Love' is complete but the stereo version lacks some instrumentation & (if I recall correctly without checking) some of the backing vocals, whatever, they do differ notably.
the mono single hit take of 'Do Wah Diddy Diddy' is far more powerful with Manfred's electric organ far more prominent (I know that sounds rude these days !) and has an emphatic drum conclusion towards the end, but in stereo Manfred loses alot of his keyboard power in the mix and the drum conclusion sounds less emphatic ( even a bit indecisive - which must be the 'mix' never Mike Hugg going wrong !)
on 'Hi Lili Hi Lo' (on 'Mann Made' album) the stereo version differs slightly to mono as Paul Jones sings; 'Let me tell you...' right at the end on the fadeout (on the stereo version I think it is without checking) that line is missing (or virtually inaudible) in mono where the track fades faster - think I have that the right way around, but whatever the mono and stereo versions do differ slightly.
while on 'You're For Me' in stereo it sounds like a tape 'looped' or something right at the very end of the fadeout as the instrumentation seems to 'jump' right at the very end...but not so in mono where the fadeout might be a bit earlier, but there is no such 'error' on the mono fade....('errors' in stereo can be found on Beatles, Hollies, & others tracks that EMI corrected on the mono versions, but left in on stereo versions presumably as mono was back then the far more common selling format for 'Pop groups' & pop music records in general)
Re Mike d'Abo era - 'Trouble And Tea' (on 'As Is' album) in mono the woodwind part sounds notably different than in stereo due to the mix I assume
'My Name is Jack' has an emphatic drums intro in mono following the initial recorder & vocal intro but in stereo the drums are much quieter for a few seconds and the volume then sounds as if it's quickly being 'turned up'...! (American copies have Mike d'Abo singing; 'here comes Superman' but the UK version (mono & stereo) retains the controversial term 'Superspade'...
no doubt other differences on versions & between mono and stereo can be found too...
sorry to sound so very 'anorak-ish' here (LOL !) but these are little things I've spotted over time - about forty years plus so I'm not being 'all clever' here I assure you ! - and I just thought people might be interested
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Post by williammcgregor on Aug 12, 2013 10:37:42 GMT
William's recent posting of information about "Gadzooks!" reveals that Manfred Mann headlined the final show in September 1965 but a report a week later states the band were banned from performing "If You Gotta Go, Go Now" on that show and "Crackerjack!" Yet they were allowed to perform it on "Top Of The Pops" (the first time on 23-09-1965 which also featured The Zombies performing the magnificent "Whenever You're Ready" - don't you just hate the Beeb for wiping it?) but does anyone know if they were banned from performing it on Thank Your Lucky Stars, Ready Steady Go or any other music shows of the time? There does exist a live performance of it from the Shindig Goes To London show which I've never actually seen but there's nothing else contemporary performance wise of this song. Hi Phillip, I can't see any reference to The Manfred's "If You Gotta Go,Go Now" being banned on any other pop show at the time, but I'll keep looking!... meantime as you can imagine, the banning did result in some interesting comments from the group members, here's the first from Paul Jones in the NME dated 17th September 1965 and here are some readers comments from the next week's edition of the NME
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 10:39:32 GMT
Indeed many differences to be heard between mono and stereo mixes of the Manfreds! Mono is always more powerful and in yer face - I was listening to the stereo "I'm Your Kingpin" the other day... it's nice, vocals in the centre but the whole rhythm section shoved away to one side with a little reverb bleed reduces it's power considerably, but that's the way 4 track stereo was mixed back then. In fact, be thankful that John Burgess had them mixed that way... The Hollies were recorded similarly but when it came to stereo mixing, they took the lazy option, shoving all the vocals to one side and everything else to the other which makes most of their earliest albums painful to listen to in stereo.
"You Gave Me Somebody To Love" is by and far the most radical. I first heard that on that early 90's hits CD combining Jones and D'Abo eras where it was stereo. A few years later I then got a CD with the mono mix and it was like listening to a totally different song though it was the exact same take. The stereo version sounds like a demo whereas Mike Vickers fleshed it out and fattened it up with his arrangements. However it's very likely he recorded those overdubs live on top of a mono mixdown to a new mono master as opposed to recording the parts onto multitrack... therefore the new elements ended up "locked in" on the mono mix, so was impossible to mix into stereo with the newer parts.
"Semi Detached Surburban Mr James" is another one where extra bits were added at the mono mixdown stage which is why they're not heard on the stereo mixes - listen to the final section... in mono you'll notice an extra falsetto vocal part that's nowhere to be heard in stereo!
Of course, the Manfreds were only one of a great many whose multitracks were wiped or junked by EMI. First, back in the 60's once a mono master had been created, the multis would often be marked for recycling and sometimes that could happen so quickly by the time a stereo album was being created, certain songs multis would already be gone forcing them to use the fake stereo trick. So it was standard practice to recycle tapes after a while but sometimes it could be within a very short time and another band would be recording over a tape from just weeks earlier.
Now here's where it gets annoying and makes EMI sound like the BBC. A lot of multitracks did get kept and were stored in the tape library. By 1971, space was running out. Now, EMI had to retain every single master they issued which in the tape age was on 1/4 inch tape. However, 4 track tapes were on 1 inch, bigger and bulkier, so it was decided to junk many of those since it would free up more space. In 1972, whole stacks of 4 track tapes were almost randomly shoved aside, taken away and junked. It ended up being pot luck what would survive. EMI did endeavour to preserve as many as possible by The Beatles, The Hollies and Cliff Richard though some Hollies and Cliff tapes did fall through the cracks and got junked. Everybody else? Tough.
Just one 4 track tape exists of Peter and Gordon - and guess what? It's a backing track - theres no vocals on it! Too many great songs can never be mixed into stereo or have improved remixes.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 10:50:20 GMT
Hi Phillip, I can't see any reference to The Manfred's "If You Gotta Go,Go Now" being banned on any other pop show at the time, but I'll keep looking!... meantime as you can imagine, the banning did result in some interesting comments from the group members, here's the first from Paul Jones in the NME dated 17th September 1965 [/url] [/quote] Fascinating stuff! Easy to forget that back then, lyrics were by that time being perceived as all important, being carefully analysed so the BBC censors ended up going somewhat overboard since indeed "Satisfaction" was far more suggestive. 1965 was also when Bob Dylan really made his mark as The Byrds, Manfreds and others rocked his stuff up and had hits with them and Dylan himself did his famous "electric" transformation partly as a result of that. Lennon and McCartney, Bob Dylan, Mick and Keith... all their lyrics came in under scrutiny as people looked for meanings and statements. Nowadays? Blimey... imagine if most of what gets put out these days was coming out in the mid 60's... the BBC would be having epic fits each time a new song came in! The mid 60's songs that did get banned for whatever reason were laughably tame. As Paul Jones pointed out, it was being "suggestive" whereas now it's right in your face complete with profanities and oversexed imagery. I know Paul had his female following, but the rest of the Manfreds - God bless them - were about as sexy as a teapot. What did the BBC think the Manfreds were gonna do performing that song on TV - act out the lyrics? They were letting Mick Jagger strut about with suggestive moves singing ever more suggestive lyrics... then it's amusing because they allowed "Let's Spend The Night Together" whereas Ed Sullivan didn't! All strange stuff!
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Post by Patrick Coles on Aug 12, 2013 13:37:58 GMT
Re 'Semi Detached...' yeah the extra call of 'Mister James' at the ending is present in mono but missing on the stereo version
The Hollies first album 'Stay With...' (1964) had a pretty good stereo mix (PCS 3054) while originally their second & third albums were only released in mono versions, tho' later issued stereo versions were in the cheapo stereo, their fourth ('Would You Believe ?- 1966 ) also had the naff cheapo stereo, as later did 'Evolution' (1967) however in between 'For Certain Because...' (1966) had a very good stereo version...!
It was EMI not the band themselves doing this poor stereo - some early Beatles & Cliff/Shadows, plus other groups EMI recordings suffered from poor stereo mixes too
'On The Beach' (1964) by Cliff/Shadows sounds laughable in stereo where Cliff (who suffers a 'coughing fit' during the instrumental section) has the whole centre range and one stereo channel all to himself...yet The Shadows are all 'squeezed up' on the other stereo channel (who mixed that ?)
Re cotroversial lyrics and bans...
The lyrics being picked up by censors was very er 'hit & miss' in the sixties - The Hollies 'Stop Stop Stop' was all about molesting a belly dancer yet no one saw any problems here (it was banned in some USA States), Dave Dee & Co's 'You Make it Move' & 'Bend it' were deemed 'riskay' but no one minded that much
while The Manfreds were being 'chastised' over Bob Dylan's 'If You Gotta Go, Go Now' & The Rolling Stones likewise re; 'Let's Spend The Night Together'.....who spotted the 'happy boys next door' band Herman Hermits sing; 'I gotta feeling you won't be leaving...tonight' (in 1966 - which they sung on 'Morecambe & Wise' ITV show !)
The Small Faces drug songs 'Here Come The Nice' & 'Itchycoo Park' escaped any censorship...yet their simple love song 'I Can't Make it' got a ban...!
Ray Davies Kinks song 'Plastic Man' got very restricted airplay if not an outright ban as Ray sings the word 'BUM' in it...so in 'Apeman' Ray sang; 'The air pollution is F*cking (not 'fogging' !) up my eyes...'and it slipped through as had his song 'Lola' full of double meanings ('I'm glad I'm a man...and so is Lola')
Later The Who's 'Who Are You' also has Roger Daltrey ask; 'Who The F*ck are you...?' which slipped through...
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Post by williammcgregor on Aug 12, 2013 14:57:06 GMT
Here's Manfred himself having a dig at the ban from the NME dated 1/10/65
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Post by petercheck on Sept 1, 2018 13:32:14 GMT
Here's the earliest filmed footage of Manfred Mann. Taped at The Concorde, Southampton, on 8th October 1963, this was first broadcast on Southern TV’s ‘Day By Day’ on 15-10-63. Much was made in 2010 when this atmospheric live footage was given to the British Film Institute by the film director’s widow, though collectors could’ve told them that this had circulated amongst fans since the mid-‘80s when it was rebroadcast on Australian TV.
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