Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Jul 21, 2013 15:48:55 GMT
I have a vague recollection of bringing this up before but long ago (and far away, in another forum) but I cannot recall if it was ever answered.
I used to have a work colleague years ago who had previously worked as a cameraman at the BBC during the 60s.
Of course, me being me, I queried him all about Doctor Who, missing episodes and so on, and he came up with a couple of little memories and a lead, of sorts, which I think has been pursued but given all the energy that there is for this at present it might not be a bad idea to revisit, and clear up and document.
The "lead" was that he was under the impression that everything that was broadcast by the BBC was telerecorded as it was broadcast and kept by the legal department in case the BBC should subsequently be accused of some legal misdemeanor such as liable, defamation or what have you. It seemed very reasonable to me, but when I asked around all I got was that no one had ever heard of this happening. I don't even know how this sort of thing is handled now - I mean what would happen if Rupert Murdoch, for example, threatened to sue the BBC because last night some continuity announcer told the whole world that he was a prat?
I suppose that if stuff was telerecorded on broadcast then it would only be kept for some period of time before being binned. As we all know, of course, things don't always get binned when they should, and I personally would love to know whether this sort of practice takes place now or has ever actually taken place.
My friend's two memories, by the way, were these:
He remembered walking through the studio when/where TP4 was being filmed. He didn't work on it himself, but he remembers that there was quite a buzz in the air when it was going on, and that lots of people were detouring that way to get a glimpse at proceedings.
He also remembered watching a dalek creep up behind some female BBC worker and using its sucker-stick to lift up her skirt. When she turned round, the dalek sort of looked her up and down with its eye-stalk.
It was the 60s, you know :-)
All the best
Richard
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Post by Richard Bignell on Jul 21, 2013 17:40:36 GMT
I've never heard of the full transmission output of the BBC being recorded until the 1980s, and even then, it was only kept for (IIRC) a week.
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Post by John Negrych on Jul 21, 2013 18:14:12 GMT
I have a vague recollection of bringing this up before but long ago (and far away, in another forum) but I cannot recall if it was ever answered. I used to have a work colleague years ago who had previously worked as a cameraman at the BBC during the 60s. Of course, me being me, I queried him all about Doctor Who, missing episodes and so on, and he came up with a couple of little memories and a lead, of sorts, which I think has been pursued but given all the energy that there is for this at present it might not be a bad idea to revisit, and clear up and document. The "lead" was that he was under the impression that everything that was broadcast by the BBC was telerecorded as it was broadcast and kept by the legal department in case the BBC should subsequently be accused of some legal misdemeanor such as liable, defamation or what have you. It seemed very reasonable to me, but when I asked around all I got was that no one had ever heard of this happening. I don't even know how this sort of thing is handled now - I mean what would happen if Rupert Murdoch, for example, threatened to sue the BBC because last night some continuity announcer told the whole world that he was a prat? I suppose that if stuff was telerecorded on broadcast then it would only be kept for some period of time before being binned. As we all know, of course, things don't always get binned when they should, and I personally would love to know whether this sort of practice takes place now or has ever actually taken place. My friend's two memories, by the way, were these: He remembered walking through the studio when/where TP4 was being filmed. He didn't work on it himself, but he remembers that there was quite a buzz in the air when it was going on, and that lots of people were detouring that way to get a glimpse at proceedings. He also remembered watching a dalek creep up behind some female BBC worker and using its sucker-stick to lift up her skirt. When she turned round, the dalek sort of looked her up and down with its eye-stalk. It was the 60s, you know :-) All the best Richard Murdoch wouldn't have a case because its true IMO.
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Post by rogerrice on Jul 21, 2013 19:02:48 GMT
I'm not sure about the BBC but all ITV stations were required to have an audio log of all transmission output on quarter-inch tape, which the recycled every fortnight.
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Jul 21, 2013 19:16:18 GMT
I'm looking for my old work colleague now. It's been over 25 years though!
Richard
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Post by Richard Marple on Jul 21, 2013 19:20:05 GMT
I've certainly heard of all output from about 1987 onwards being recording on VHS.
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Post by Ken Griffin on Jul 21, 2013 20:53:38 GMT
There were audio copies made of all ITV programme output from 1965 to at least 1975. I have an IBA document from that year which states that from 1965 such sound recordings had to be held for 28 days by the regional companies and at least three months for the big national ones.
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Post by Craig Robins on Jul 21, 2013 22:29:09 GMT
There were audio copies made of all ITV programme output from 1965 to at least 1975. I have an IBA document from that year which states that from 1965 such sound recordings had to be held for 28 days by the regional companies and at least three months for the big national ones. This definitely continued until the franchise round of 1993 at least. Beyond then, I can't comment as I left ITV
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Post by Simon B Kelly on Jul 22, 2013 19:57:28 GMT
Most of the Doctor Who episodes were telerecorded during their original broadcast, but these were for use by BBC Enterprises. You can read more about it in Richard Molesworth's book, "Wiped!"
I'm sure any recordings made for the legal team were simply low-fi audio recordings that would have been wiped after a few weeks. This has been common practise in radio broadcasting for decades...
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Post by brianfretwell on Jul 23, 2013 9:42:20 GMT
I'm sure that on the old All Pally web site there was something about a film recorder set up for recording at 16 2/3 fps for viewing prints or checking. I would assume that if any recording of the picture was done for any legal reason mentioned above it may have been done at that rate for economy, though I think this was before the first Ampex VT machines were installed.
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Jul 23, 2013 13:10:03 GMT
I would have thought that you would have to record visuals, as well as sound, to cover yourself legally.
Not that I know - just speculating.
Richard
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Post by Rob Moss on Jul 23, 2013 13:15:34 GMT
I'd have thought so too - what if someone flashed up a sign saying "X is a XXXX" - nothing in the audio to aid a jury there!
However, if the facilities weren't reasonably available, recording the visuals wouldn't be an easy option...
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Post by Simon B Kelly on Jul 23, 2013 17:18:05 GMT
I'd have thought so too - what if someone flashed up a sign saying "X is a XXXX" - nothing in the audio to aid a jury there! That could only happen with live broadcasts, Rob, and by the 1960's the majority of TV, like Doctor Who, was pre-recorded. If it had been easier to record live tv we might have a complete "Quatermass Experiment" from 1953 but the attempted telerecording of that was so bad that the process was abandoned. By the time the BBC had perfected telerecording, videotape was being used so surely any temporary video recordings of live shows would have been recorded on a reusable medium? The most likely explanation, Richard, for why "no one had ever heard of this happening" is, sadly, because it didn't! Obviously in the US, with multiple time zones, many shows were telerecorded on 16mm so that they could be shared around the country, but this was never necessary in the UK and there's no way the BBC would have wasted money telerecording shows just to junk them a couple of weeks later. Surely the whole purpose of telerecording was to make a copy for overseas sales? I grew up believing that everything being shown on television was being recorded and kept in some huge, ever-expanding, underground vault, that could be revisited at some point in the future. I had no idea it was regarded as an ephemeral medium and that even big-budget, pre-recorded shows were being junked and wiped shortly after broadcast and that most "live" shows weren't even being recorded in the first place, even when the technology was available to do so! It's a lovely thought that somewhere there is a huge archive of telerecordings and videotapes of everything ever broadcast that someone has been secretly storing for the last 80 years. Personally, I think there's more chance of us recovering the signals from space - and we all can all guess what the odds on that are...
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
|
Post by Richard Develyn on Jul 23, 2013 17:46:13 GMT
I wasn't being fancyfull or wishfull, I was told about this by someone who worked there at the time. Having said that, I don't suppose that they knew for sure, it was just what they thought was happening.
I guess the point though is that everything visual was pre-recorded and continuity announcers could just have their sound recorded at the time of broadcast, in case they said something they shouldn't. Would that be about right?
Richard
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Post by Simon B Kelly on Jul 23, 2013 20:59:32 GMT
I doubt even recording continuity would have been a consideration. On 13th November 1965, during a live tv debate, Kenneth Tynan became the first person to use the F-word on television, but no recording of this, either audio or video, appears to exist. Maybe this event may have inspired the legal team to start making temporary recordings of live shows? After all, it's far more likely than a guest is going to say something litigious than a continuity announcer. The engineering department would have been capable of recording everything onto Ampex temporarily and this is the most likely scenario. It's just a shame that videotape was so expensive back then...
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