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Post by Richard Hunter on Apr 23, 2012 6:55:02 GMT
I remember talking to Mark Hagen (a former TOTP2 producer) about the Disco clips & ZDF a few years ago when I met him at the BFI for the TOTP's is 40 evening.
They have tried on numerous occasions to ask ZDF to have copies made of what the BBC originally gave them but ZDF have refused point blank to do any business with them.
They got to a certain level within their organisation and have then literally met a wall of complete silence even to the point where they denied that the clips they held were original BBC material!!!
As that was getting on for some 8 years ago I don't know if it would be worth another attempt being made if one hadn't been made already.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Apr 23, 2012 7:59:27 GMT
I remember talking to Mark Hagen (a former TOTP2 producer) about the Disco clips & ZDF a few years ago when I met him at the BFI for the TOTP's is 40 evening. They have tried on numerous occasions to ask ZDF to have copies made of what the BBC originally gave them but ZDF have refused point blank to do any business with them. They got to a certain level within their organisation and have then literally met a wall of complete silence even to the point where they denied that the clips they held were original BBC material!!! As that was getting on for some 8 years ago I don't know if it would be worth another attempt being made if one hadn't been made already. I've been told it's about PAYING for anything. If it's free the BBC will have it. Otherwise, they won't. That's what I was told, but I don't know how accurate that actually is. |
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Post by Mike Morton on Apr 23, 2012 10:26:55 GMT
I also know ZDF hold the original footage without the cut-outs to Disco that can be seen in most of the performances. The 'Wig Wam Bam' footage used on a Sweet VHS years ago was totally clean without any cuts to Disco. I also heard years ago that a Paul McCartney & Wings performance from TOTP is sitting on the ZDF shelves. I think it might have been a performance for 'Mary Had A Little Lamb' but I can't quite remember why it didn't get shown...
Alot of these ZDF/TOTP performances are available on various DVDs though.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Apr 23, 2012 10:50:33 GMT
I also know ZDF hold the original footage without the cut-outs to Disco that can be seen in most of the performances. The 'Wig Wam Bam' footage used on a Sweet VHS years ago was totally clean without any cuts to Disco. I also heard years ago that a Paul McCartney & Wings performance from TOTP is sitting on the ZDF shelves. I think it might have been a performance for 'Mary Had A Little Lamb' but I can't quite remember why it didn't get shown... Alot of these ZDF/TOTP performances are available on various DVDs though. In regard to Wings, I've heard that too. |
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Apr 23, 2012 10:56:04 GMT
I've emailed ZDF about Wings.
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Post by Mark Tinkler on Apr 23, 2012 14:24:21 GMT
when I made the Marc Bolan doc for the BBC a few years back, I included a couple of TOTP clips of T Rex that I got from ZDF. They charged me full whack for them but at least I passed the digi-Beta back to the Beeb when I was done - but certainly then (i.e. about 4 years ago), the BBC knew that ZDF weren't willing to "help" them out...
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Post by nicadare on Apr 23, 2012 15:50:42 GMT
The BBC should acquire those ZDF TOTP clips immediately and pay up, whatever the cost. Obviously money is no object to the BBC, they are clearly "throwing away" license payers money. Here's an example>> www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1034764/BBCs-taxi-soars-60-year-staggering-14million.htmlThe Germans must be laughing at the BBC's incompetence in wiping all those TOTP episodes, I bet that the 'Pop go the Sixties' special only survives because ZDF retained their copy as the BBC were wiping almost everything in 1969/1970. Rant over.  |
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Post by Guest on Apr 23, 2012 17:54:21 GMT
The BBC should acquire those ZDF TOTP clips immediately and pay up, whatever the cost. Obviously money is no object to the BBC, they are clearly "throwing away" license payers money. Here's an example>> www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1034764/BBCs-taxi-soars-60-year-staggering-14million.htmlThe Germans must be laughing at the BBC's incompetence in wiping all those TOTP episodes, I bet that the 'Pop go the Sixties' special only survives because ZDF retained their copy as the BBC were wiping almost everything in 1969/1970. Rant over. That I think is a touch unfair for several reasons, despite the blinkered vision of certain BBC managers (Old Grey Whistle Test was frequently kept at the expense of TOTP). Video tape was VERY expensive prior to the late '70s at a time when it was never envisaged that a regular show like TOTP would ever be repeated at a future date. Also there were music rights issues that were to plague the BBC into the 1980s, which also affected ITV shows as well (eg. "Lift Off with Ayesha"). Plus you can't compare essential costs like taxi fares with anything else that the BBC may do. ZDF could also be asking exorbitant fees for their archive material which we don't know about and it would be pointless to speculate on this without access to the full facts. I'm not saying that the BBC is entirely blameless but you can't blame today's BBC for what happened 35 years ago any more than criticising them for spending money on X when it could arguably have been spent on Y instead. |
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Post by Richard Hunter on Apr 23, 2012 18:40:50 GMT
I wonder if the BBC charged ZDF for the inserts they provided them in the early 70's?
If they did then I could see why ZDF would want to charge the BBC for supplying copies to be returned to the BBC's archives.
If for some reason the BBC didn't charge ZDF (and I think it highly unlikely) at the time then I think it unfair that ZDF would want to charge the BBC for the return of said material.
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Post by Rich Cornock on Apr 23, 2012 18:56:02 GMT
To be honest you would expect ZDF to charge something for the return of these recordings. I imagine it would take quite a bit of time to go through any tapes they have and transfer them before getting them sent over to the BBC.
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Post by dennywilson on Apr 24, 2012 2:48:04 GMT
They got to a certain level within their organisation and have then literally met a wall of complete silence even to the point where they denied that the clips they held were original BBC material!!! . er, doesn't the BBC have the sales records?  |
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Post by Chris Barratt on Apr 24, 2012 6:53:22 GMT
I think the way forward is to form a sort of collective dedicated to the ZDF/TOTP archive - but one that accepts at this stage that any co-operation from ZDF won't be for free. This obviously won't be some charitable Kaleidoscope-esque charity but a group of dedicated enthusiasts aware that ultimately money will have to change hands.
The first thing that would need to be done is establishing a relationship with someone at ZDF who is interested/sympathetic enough to provide us with proper information on what they have.
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Post by Liam Joseph on Apr 24, 2012 7:15:07 GMT
They got to a certain level within their organisation and have then literally met a wall of complete silence even to the point where they denied that the clips they held were original BBC material!!! . er, doesn't the BBC have the sales records? They probably wrote over them.  |
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Post by markg on Apr 24, 2012 8:16:46 GMT
They got to a certain level within their organisation and have then literally met a wall of complete silence even to the point where they denied that the clips they held were original BBC material!!! . er, doesn't the BBC have the sales records? I reckon those got wiped too ;D |
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Post by Guest on Apr 24, 2012 12:25:06 GMT
So back on topic!!!! well had everything seen on lasts night's edition been seen before? even on the 1st series 20 odd years ago:
"We’ve a series of ‘Sounds of the 70s 2’ and ‘TOTP2’ coming up on BBC Two in the spring and summer. ‘Sounds of the 70s 2’ will not repeat anything in series 1"
Yeah right.
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