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Post by Brad Phipps on Apr 13, 2012 1:40:54 GMT
Thanks for your comments! The labels on the recovered film can of part 2 of "Evil" do not give any indication that the film had come from Australia. I'd suspect that the consignment of films would have been sent sans cans, as they would have added considerably to the weight of the shipment. In fact, the film can label does note the 1968 repeat date on it, so I wonder whether that repeat was done off a film copy rather than the original video tape... (?) If they had repeated from film, I think it would have been 35mm rather than 16mm -- the BBC didn't consider 16mm T/Rs high enough quality to run on BBC 1. Therefore, I suspect it was repeated from the VT. Possibly it was T/R'd again from the repeat? The original videotapes still existed so they transmitted the repeat from that. They were subsequently wiped a few months later. |
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Post by LanceM on Apr 13, 2012 4:18:59 GMT
Fasinating! This would seem to make the most sense there in regards to broadcast from either 35mm or 405line VT. "So close, but so far away " moments in time...
Cheers, Lance.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Apr 13, 2012 7:57:34 GMT
Regarding the film prints of Evil #2 & Faceless Ones #3, the labels on them now were put there in 1987. When I first saw the films they had no BBC labelling on at all. Both did though have correct original BBC countdown leaders on them so they probably weren't from Australia. The ABC would always add an SMPTE leader on the front, removing the BBC one and make a note of that on the corresponding film history card. The leaders would also say "Australian Broadcasting Commission". But it gets complicated, because the BBC also used to put their leaders on other broadcasters prints. I have a couple of 16mm eps of the ABC series 'The Stranger' here with BBC leaders on.
Paul
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Post by dennywilson on Apr 13, 2012 20:03:53 GMT
Episode hunting is very hit and miss now the foreign archives have been pretty much exhausted, as I see it. There is absolutely no way to tell how much missing who is out there in the wild, could be a lot, could be none. I intuitively reckon there is more, but its a complete needle in a haystack........ Have the last of the possible overseas locations been completely checked at this point? An official word from the lads? |
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Post by Greg H on Apr 13, 2012 20:33:03 GMT
Episode hunting is very hit and miss now the foreign archives have been pretty much exhausted, as I see it. There is absolutely no way to tell how much missing who is out there in the wild, could be a lot, could be none. I intuitively reckon there is more, but its a complete needle in a haystack........ Have the last of the possible overseas locations been completely checked at this point? An official word from the lads? You would have to ask Paul or Richard or someone like that to confirm this, but the impression I get is that the oversea archives have been checked as fully as possible at this stage. If anything is returned from them in the future it would likely be from a mislabeled can or found down the back of a filing cabinet à la ice warriors. Please correct me if anyone has more accurate information  |
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Post by Alex Taylor on Apr 14, 2012 13:51:31 GMT
A couple of questions occur...
- did the batch of episodes returned in '75 include Mission and Masterplan, or were these returned/junked in the 60s after rejection?
- do we have any evidence that any of the surviving prints other than those explicitly mentioned may have come from this batch?
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Post by Greg H on Apr 14, 2012 16:17:24 GMT
IIRC correctly there is some ambiguity as to the fate of the 11 DMP viewing prints that were sent down under. I seem to recall that it is unknown wether they were returned to the UK, junked in Australia or on the very slimmest of chances might still reside somewhere in Australia. If anyone has more up to date information please feel free to correct me!
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Post by Jon Preddle on Apr 14, 2012 18:34:06 GMT
A couple of questions occur... - did the batch of episodes returned in '75 include Mission and Masterplan, or were these returned/junked in the 60s after rejection? - do we have any evidence that any of the surviving prints other than those explicitly mentioned may have come from this batch? To answer in order: - no, they weren't part of the consignment - no - if anything, there is more evidence for them not being from Australia, such as lack of censor cuts |
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Post by Alex Taylor on Apr 14, 2012 19:03:29 GMT
Thanks Jon, that's what I expected :-) I didn't think the DMP episodes would have been in there, but BroaDWcast is slightly ambiguous in that it states that the consignment was of 'most of the serials from the run of The Space Museum through to The Tenth Planet' and then goes on to list 'Toymaker' and 'War Machines' as not being included. This gives the impression that those were the *only* serials not included...
Were the ABC's copies of 'The Dominators' the ones sent to the BFI, or did they just receive negatives?
A further thought had occurred...IIRC, the 1976 'Whose Doctor Who' list noted the existence of Web:1 at Enterprises in 1976 but the copy discovered there in 1978 had supposedly only been returned quite recently, leading to speculation that the print spotted two years previously might have been a different one which had since been lost. Idle speculation on my part: maybe the '76 print was ex-ABC? :-)
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Post by Jon Preddle on Apr 14, 2012 20:00:00 GMT
.... was of 'most of the serials from the run of The Space Museum through to The Tenth Planet' and then goes on to list 'Toymaker' and 'War Machines' as not being included. This gives the impression that those were the *only* serials not included... I singled out those two stories only because episodes were found in Australia. Were the ABC's copies of 'The Dominators' the ones sent to the BFI, or did they just receive negatives? My understanding is, the BFI was given the negatives as well as a set of uncut prints, while the BBC held onto the cut Australian prints. A further thought had occurred...IIRC, the 1976 'Whose Doctor Who' list noted the existence of Web:1 at Enterprises in 1976 but the copy discovered there in 1978 had supposedly only been returned quite recently, leading to speculation that the print spotted two years previously might have been a different one which had since been lost. Idle speculation on my part: maybe the '76 print was ex-ABC? :-) My take on this is, that the Web print held in 1976 was in the process of being junked when it was "found" by Sue Malden in 1978. |
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Post by Alex Taylor on Apr 14, 2012 20:22:57 GMT
I singled out those two stories only because episodes were found in Australia. Ah, right. But they were the only two Hartnells from that run which the ABC bought and did not send back in '75, yes? Interesting. Actually, has any research been done into exactly how the various 16mm prints held by the FL in 1978 came to be there? I realise that many of them would have ended up there by default, but why were those specific prints knocking about in the first place? That's the other explanation, of course :-) I believe I read the speculation about a possible second print in Wiped! a little while back. |
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Post by Jon Preddle on Apr 14, 2012 21:43:09 GMT
I singled out those two stories only because episodes were found in Australia. Ah, right. But they were the only two Hartnells from that run which the ABC bought and did not send back in '75, yes? From the third season, the ABC returned just three: Galaxy 4, The Myth Makers and The Ark. In answer to your second question, the prints of The Ark held by the BBC in 1978 can't have been the ABC ones, for the simple fact that the Australian prints had numerous cuts to them, and the ones the BBC had were not cut. From season 4, they returned everything, except for The Highlanders and The Macra Terror. Actually, has any research been done into exactly how the various 16mm prints held by the FL in 1978 came to be there? I realise that many of them would have ended up there by default, but why were those specific prints knocking about in the first place? Only guess work: they were unused ones the BBC had sitting on the shelf, or they had been returned from overseas. And before someone asks the obvious, no, it's not known from where! |
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Post by Alex Taylor on Apr 14, 2012 22:56:13 GMT
Ah, right. But they were the only two Hartnells from that run which the ABC bought and did not send back in '75, yes? From the third season, the ABC returned just three: Galaxy 4, The Myth Makers and The Ark. Oh, right! I took the way the article is phrased to mean that they'd returned far more of Season 3 than is actually the case. For completeness then, did they return 'The Time Meddler' along with the other two S2 serials? |
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Post by Jon Preddle on Apr 15, 2012 7:29:09 GMT
For completeness then, did they return 'The Time Meddler' along with the other two S2 serials? Yes, they did. |
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Post by tatianaromanova on Apr 15, 2012 12:33:21 GMT
Why did the Australians edit so much?
How come what was OK to show in a tea-time slot in the UK was not OK to show in a tea-time slot in Australia?
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