Early series of Bullseye

[Jeremy Williams]

Challenge are currently showing the 1983/4 series of Bullseye, but after asking about the early series, they said they are having difficulty sourcing the first ATV series, apparently at least 2 editions are missing including the first ever one, which was apparently wiped due to it being so badly made!

Does anyone know if this is the case?

[Ray Langstone (was saintsray)]

""Missing or incomplete episodes for programme BULLSEYE.

--.--.-- [first pilot] (missing)
--.--.-- [second pilot] (missing)
Series 1
28.09.81 Episode 1 (missing)
05.10.81 Episode 2 (missing)
02.11.81 Episode 6 (missing)
Series 2
10.10.82 Episode 1 (missing)
17.10.82 Episode 2 (missing)
24.10.82 Episode 3 (missing)
26.12.82 Christmas Special (missing)
02.01.83 Episode 13 (missing)
16.01.83 Episode 15 (missing)
23.01.83 Episode 16 (missing)
Series 3
18.12.83 Episode 4 (missing)
25.12.83 Christmas Special (missing)
22.01.84 Episode 8 (missing)
25.03.84 Episode 16 (missing)
Series 4
16.12.84 Episode 16 (missing)
23.12.84 Christmas Special (missing)
30.12.84 Episode 18 (missing)
Series 5
25.08.85 Episode 1 (missing)
01.09.85 Episode 2 (missing)
29.09.85 Episode 6 (missing)
24.11.85 Episode 14 (missing)
01.12.85 Episode 15 (missing)
22.12.85 Episode 17 (missing)
29.12.85 Episode 18 (missing)
19.01.86 Episode 19 (missing)
16.02.86 Episode 23 (missing)
23.02.86 Episode 24 (missing)
16.03.86 Episode 26 (missing)
Series 6
31.08.86 Episode 1 (missing)
28.09.86 Episode 5 (missing)
05.10.86 Episode 6 (missing)
12.10.86 Episode 7 (missing)
19.10.86 Episode 8 (missing)
26.10.86 Episode 9 (missing)
09.11.86 Episode 11 (missing)
30.11.86 Episode 14 (missing)
04.01.87 Episode 19 (missing)

Out of an original total of 326 episodes, 39 episodes are missing.""

Interestingly, a couple of these have been shown on Challenge, so the tapes might just be elsewhere?

One way or the other, here are a couple....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8TFCOryJpg (05/10/1981)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMoNNr9g6jQ (23/12/1984)

[Richard Marple]

I've heard the format needed a bit of fine tuning in the early days. Also IIRC some early tapes do survive but are in too poor condition to screen.

[markboulton]

Eh? The first episode has been screened on Challenge a number of times, including their First Episodes season not so long ago. Plus the opening of the first episode was included in an anniversary show...the opening is very distinct because Jim says "It's a game about darts", and he goes on to explain each section as if for the first time. Unless he did that exactly the same way in all of the first 4 episodes, which I doubt.

The two pilots are, I'm sure, the two episodes that were wiped due to being so bad. But then, nearly all pilots are. Even the "Millionaire" pilot was laughably crude compared to the finished product.

I think what may have happened here is what happened with crossroads. That is, whenever Central had cause to access a 2" VT for a repeat or a clip, they would transfer the 2" tape to 1", then junk the 2". The 1" would become the new master. But latter day researchers keep forgetting this/don't consider it in the first place. Rule of thumb: If not in Place 1, look to where Place 2 would have been before considering it missing or misfired.

[Hugo Danby]

I'm note sure where Ray got his information from but I know that all sixteen episodes of Series 2 exist and that 25 out of 26 episodes for Series 3 also exist.

[Christopher Perry]

The info is based on what ITV told us last year about what has survived. It came straight from ITV Rights and Archive so it could be wrong but I would be surprised. It was double-checked by ITV Rights because there was an issue over who to pay. If more shows do survive then someone isn't getting paid for the repeats. ITV seemed pretty confident they had nailed it.

If people have more info on missing shows, or know where they are, do email me at [e-mail] I would love to know where the missing ones are.

[Ray Langstone (was saintsray)]

Oct 16, 2014 19:15:42 GMT Christopher Perry said:

The info is based on what ITV told us last year about what has survived. It came straight from ITV Rights and Archive so it could be wrong but I would be surprised. It was double-checked by ITV Rights because there was an issue over who to pay. If more shows do survive then someone isn't getting paid for the repeats. ITV seemed pretty confident they had nailed it.

If people have more info on missing shows, or know where they are, do email me at [e-mail] I would love to know where the missing ones are.

Thank you CP.

[markboulton]

I'm also pretty sure there CAN'T be that many missing from 86/87. Just not possible. They could just be split between Leeds and Perivale. Also, some might be only extant on DigiBeta dubs done by the BFI with "Distributed by Carlton International" endcaps added to the end. No doubt looking at any one stack of tapes, there will be gaps. Plus, some tapes might have gone the way of "log first, transfer later", and some, "transfer first, log later". From the horses mouth (Challenge's own Web forum), some editions were transferred especially for them to complete the set, so may well fall into the latter category. After all, ITV Rights surely only did a database search; not a physical one (I'm guessing but that's what's most likely).

[markboulton]

Actually, noticing the OP was in 2012, all of this may well have been found out since, and rectified.

[Ray Langstone (was saintsray)]

Oct 17, 2014 11:23:41 GMT markboulton said:

I'm also pretty sure there CAN'T be that many missing from 86/87. Just not possible. They could just be split between Leeds and Perivale. Also, some might be only extant on DigiBeta dubs done by the BFI with "Distributed by Carlton International" endcaps added to the end. No doubt looking at any one stack of tapes, there will be gaps. Plus, some tapes might have gone the way of "log first, transfer later", and some, "transfer first, log later". From the horses mouth (Challenge's own Web forum), some editions were transferred especially for them to complete the set, so may well fall into the latter category. After all, ITV Rights surely only did a database search; not a physical one (I'm guessing but that's what's most likely).

I expect there will be less missing than it shows on the current lostshows.com database.

I really just wanted to flag this up, and I have!

[mikejones]

From Challenge in November 2013, a year after the OP

Epsoides Challenge did have,
S1 - eps 3,6,8,9,10,11,12,13 and 15.
S2 - 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 and 13.
S3 - 21 eps labelled in order 1 -21.
S4 - 28 eps labelled in order 1 -28.
S5 - 15 eps labelled in order 1 -15

which is still far less then the 39 which is missing more like 25, but is this correct? Once again Lost shows is badly out of date.

[Ray Langstone (was saintsray)]

Oct 17, 2014 12:22:25 GMT mikejones said:

From Challenge in November 2013, a year after the OP

Epsoides Challenge did have,
S1 - eps 3,6,8,9,10,11,12,13 and 15.
S2 - 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 and 13.
S3 - 21 eps labelled in order 1 -21.
S4 - 28 eps labelled in order 1 -28.
S5 - 15 eps labelled in order 1 -15

which is still far less then the 39 which is missing more like 25, but is this correct? Once again Lost shows is badly out of date.

As Chris Perry said in his earlier post, ITV provided the info as to what survived. It came straight from ITV Rights and Archive Rights and they seemed pretty confident with the information provided. In the case of these 14 episodes, they are probably somewhere where the paperwork isn't!
It's not lostshows.com's fault.

[mikejones]

That does not change the fact than in over a year lost shows has yet to update its debate to and reduce the number of episodes missing. Its pretty clear 39 are not missing and the number is at least 15 below that. This means their are looking for stuff which isn't actually missing, wasting time on stuff which does need to be looked for.

[Hugo Danby]

The information about Series 2 and 3 episodes is admittedly 10 years old but it was based on the programmes that were relocated up to Leeds at the time of the closure of Carlton's archive in Nottingham.

[mikejones]

I take it a full audit has since taken place?