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Post by Giles Sparrow on Feb 1, 2012 1:18:34 GMT
Despite 2Entertain's comments that only a story with more than 50% remaining would be up for animation selection over on another forum I use there are a lot of people dead set that the Crusades, the Moonbase and now the Underwater Menace will get the same treatment. Blind faith is a strong thing it seems. Really? I wasn't aware of that comment - do you mind my asking who said it and when? Assuming it's accurate, though, I still wouldn't consider it set in stone forever - if there's money to be made they'll change their minds. After all, it's still less than a year ago that any animations beyond Invasion were being dismissed as financially unworkable.
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Post by Giles Sparrow on Feb 1, 2012 1:20:11 GMT
I have my doubts. Not that I hope Reign of Terror sells badly,but it's a strange idea that a company might release a less-commercial serial first,so that they can prove by paying for another more popular partially animated title to be made,that it IS possible to make money out of them despite the relative failure of the first. There would be a majority of Dr Who fans that collect DVDs that would buy all the stories regardless (the whole collector syndrome that afflicts many sci fi fans ), and then a minor group that would only buy the ones they're interested in / favourite Doctor / etc. In saying that there would be a guarenteed profit of DVD sales if they roughly knew each DVD release would return X amount of money. Anything above that is additional. If they knew the "guarenteed" return was enough to warrant The Reign of Terror a "success" (and that could go for any 'clunker' that Doctor Who has produced) then much of this discussion is a moot point. Granted I have no knowledge of what kind of profit each DVD makes, obviously some fair better than others. I think this is the key, and why Invasion doesn't enter into the equation - the fact we got it when we did is a matter of serendipity, and they knew at the time that it was a one-off that couldn't work on a normal DVD budget. Whatever we're getting now, in contrast, will have been worked out in the context of the DVD range alone, and since 2|E have previously made it clear that each release has to work within its own budget and make a profit, it seems that they've found a way to make 2-episode animations work within a budget that's not much bigger than usual. Certainly if they've bet the farm on Reign outselling Avatar, then someone's not been doing their job properly! If this is the case, then unless they decide to sell Reign at a premium compared to normal releases, there's not going to be much of a difference in the financial case for filling in the gaps on the "2 out of 4" stories once the "Big Three" are done. Yes they've released the surviving episodes before (well, 5/6 of them), but only on a low-selling release that was tailored for the hardcore who are almost certain to repurchase a newly completed story. The major block to this that I can see, though, is the shortage of time before the range reaches its natural conclusion...
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Post by John F Brayshaw on Feb 1, 2012 1:44:51 GMT
If you are thinking not possible ~ if Big Finish involved like I said don't say never even to The Dalek Master Plan being animated eventually even if nothing more is found.
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Post by John Andersen on Feb 1, 2012 2:51:47 GMT
Despite 2Entertain's comments that only a story with more than 50% remaining would be up for animation selection over on another forum I use there are a lot of people dead set that the Crusades, the Moonbase and now the Underwater Menace will get the same treatment. Blind faith is a strong thing it seems. Really? I wasn't aware of that comment - do you mind my asking who said it and when? Assuming it's accurate, though, I still wouldn't consider it set in stone forever - if there's money to be made they'll change their minds. After all, it's still less than a year ago that any animations beyond Invasion were being dismissed as financially unworkable. Maybe words are getting twisted around here a little and attributed to the wrong people. I was just speculating that 2/e would most likely be concentrating on animating the lost stories that had more than 50% of the episodes still surviving in the archive. These would be the cheapest projects to do with the limited resources that they have, and it would give extra time for more episodes to be recovered for other lost stories later, if any more are found. Animating a full six episode story right now would cost twice the amount of animating The Tenth Planet and The Ice Warriors. It would sure be a waste of resources if they were putting the finishing touches on animating something like Mission to the Unknown and The Daleks' Masterplan to only have the episodes from those stories turn up before the release.
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Post by John F Brayshaw on Feb 1, 2012 3:09:03 GMT
John, I see what you are saying. Any animations would be the one's with least missing episodes: The Crusade, The Ice Warriors, The Tenth Planet, The Underwater Menace, The Moonbase would come before any others. But even if episodes are found they can be reincorporated into the releases as a Special Edition. I know not everyone likes the animation but it is better than nothing.
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Post by Rob Moore on Feb 1, 2012 9:17:20 GMT
I assumed that they were picking stories with no telesnaps for animation (i.e. Invasion and Reign), as 2E were still considering using telesnap recons as part of the range a year or two ago. By leaving stories such as the Ice Warriors that have telenaps they are leaving their options open for as long as possible.
The telesnaps come under bbc copyright AIU, however to do a photo montage like the fan recons is virtually impossible in terms of both budget and getting copyright clearance for each photo used.
Could be wrong though!
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Post by John Green on Feb 1, 2012 11:41:36 GMT
Of course,a short version of Marco Polo,with telesnaps,was released on the Edge of Destruction disc.
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Post by John F Brayshaw on Feb 1, 2012 11:46:24 GMT
We have to wait for Reign of Terror to be released, then we will know just what and how they might use telesnaps in the animation process.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Feb 1, 2012 11:51:40 GMT
I don't think you'll learn anything from Reign. It wasn't tele-snapped.
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Post by John F Brayshaw on Feb 1, 2012 13:28:04 GMT
I don't think you'll learn anything from Reign. It wasn't tele-snapped. Good point, Reign isn't a good for inclusion of tele-snaps.
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Post by John Green on Feb 1, 2012 16:55:07 GMT
It's not a bad idea,from the marketing point of view.2012 is the bicentenary of Napoleon's ill-advised invasion of Russia,so release Reign of Terror this year. 2013 is the centenary of the arrival of aliens on earth,so release an animated Moonbase.(Though obviously The Invasion would have been better).
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Post by Brad Phipps on Feb 1, 2012 20:21:49 GMT
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Post by David Cann on Feb 2, 2012 20:44:18 GMT
If I had been aware that BFI were showing Underwater Menace 2 at the 'Missing Believed Wiped' event I would have shuftied down to the Southbank and had a gander. But as I and most others were not 'in the know' we we all have to wait 12, 18 ,24 months before we can see these episodes. I guess the BFI event was sold out and that is why there was no prior announcement? Or maybe they were concerned about being swamped by fanboys who cared little for the other material proffered? I think that the reason that the recoveries were kept under wraps was not only to stop the event from being swamped by fans, but just simply so that, for those at the BFI event, it was a nice surprise! I'm not sure if it was fully booked, but announcing it beforehand would have provoked madness both for bookings and also on online forums such as this one. If they hadn't wanted to keep it a secret then I'm sure the BBC would have announced the recoveries a few months before they did, but they chose to reward those dedicated enough to make it to the Missing Believed Wiped event (not to indicate that anyone who couldn't make it isn't dedicated!) with a well-deserved surprise.
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Post by John Andersen on Feb 2, 2012 21:30:17 GMT
If I had been aware that BFI were showing Underwater Menace 2 at the 'Missing Believed Wiped' event I would have shuftied down to the Southbank and had a gander. But as I and most others were not 'in the know' we we all have to wait 12, 18 ,24 months before we can see these episodes. I guess the BFI event was sold out and that is why there was no prior announcement? Or maybe they were concerned about being swamped by fanboys who cared little for the other material proffered? I think that the reason that the recoveries were kept under wraps was not only to stop the event from being swamped by fans, but just simply so that, for those at the BFI event, it was a nice surprise! I'm not sure if it was fully booked, but announcing it beforehand would have provoked madness both for bookings and also on online forums such as this one. If they hadn't wanted to keep it a secret then I'm sure the BBC would have announced the recoveries a few months before they did, but they chose to reward those dedicated enough to make it to the Missing Believed Wiped event (not to indicate that anyone who couldn't make it isn't dedicated!) with a well-deserved surprise. That is one reason. I also think they wanted time to follow up on any new leads Mr. Burnett could give them before an announcement was made. Trying to follow up leads is difficult enough. A ton of extra press about missing episodes could cause potential leads to disappear because some people might not want that kind of media attention.
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Post by Dominic Abrams on Feb 2, 2012 22:14:27 GMT
I've only just bought (and watched) the Gunfighters DVD. Am I mistaken or is there a shot of a Rill (from "Air Lock") included in the documentary? If so, was this not released prior to the announcement about the returns...and didn't anybody clue in to the source of the clip?
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