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Post by Anthony Clark on Dec 19, 2011 20:58:56 GMT
Could we have a German Darren Gregory-type on our hands? There’s something about all this that smells bad to me… prove me wrong and I’ll buy you a pint, but I can’t help feeling it’s major league twaddle.
On a divergent note – I met the man who made the Ice Warrior costumes, Jack Lovell, and he had some very interesting things to say about their design. If the front of the carapace looks like the back of a crocodile – the lines of raised ridges – it’s because that’s what they are.
Lovell had just made some dummy crocs for a movie and when the BBC costume department came to see him he claimed: “They didn’t have a f*cking clue what they wanted so I showed them some of my stuff.” Apparently, when they saw the crocodile skins they decide that’s what they wanted – or something akin to it. The crocodile ‘theme’ of raised scales in convergent lines ended up being extended over much of the body and helmet.
Lovell was a firm friend of Bernard Breslaw and they used to meet up at various charity events – Water Rats I think – and Lovell would, so he said, tease Breslaw about encasing him in fibre glass.
Lovell’s comments about Derek Meddings, with whom he worked on a number of Anderson and Bond projects, aren’t fit to repeat! Well, not here at least.
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Post by Steven Sigel on Dec 19, 2011 21:51:19 GMT
how often did the bbc send off viewing prints in this way? where there's one incidence there will be others. A possible lead(s) and not just for Dr Who. Not just the BBC, but ALL TV makers and distributors sent out audition prints (that's the correct term, not "viewing prints") as a way to hopefully sell their wares. From the 1970s, copies (on low grade tape) were distributed at international exhibits like the annual MIPCOM in Cannes, annual BBC Showcases in Brighton... That's how it was done in the 60s, 70s and 80s. And is still today, although there is no physical film/video being despatched, as it's usually sent digitally by satellite. Jon - A 'viewing' print (at least here in the US) refers to a print that was struck with the appropriate contrast to be run on a projector, rather than a broadcast print which would have the appropriate contrast for screening on television. This was more of an issue in the 60s than it is now of course - you can use anything for broadcast with modern equipment... And you can screen a broadcast print, just has somewhat lighter contrast... |
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Post by Jon Preddle on Dec 20, 2011 2:44:27 GMT
Not just the BBC, but ALL TV makers and distributors sent out audition prints (that's the correct term, not "viewing prints") as a way to hopefully sell their wares. From the 1970s, copies (on low grade tape) were distributed at international exhibits like the annual MIPCOM in Cannes, annual BBC Showcases in Brighton... That's how it was done in the 60s, 70s and 80s. And is still today, although there is no physical film/video being despatched, as it's usually sent digitally by satellite. Jon - A 'viewing' print (at least here in the US) refers to a print that was struck with the appropriate contrast to be run on a projector, rather than a broadcast print which would have the appropriate contrast for screening on television. This was more of an issue in the 60s than it is now of course - you can use anything for broadcast with modern equipment... And you can screen a broadcast print, just has somewhat lighter contrast... I guess different terms apply in different countries. With NZBC/TVNZ they would get an "audition" copy to view as a way to decide whether or not to buy. In some cases they would go on to broadcast off that print. So in that case, it was an audition, a viewing and a broadcast print all in one! (which suggests it was a hand-me-down from a previous broadcaster). In the context under which I corrected the term viewing print to audition print was in the case of The Ice Warrior and films being offered at MIPCOM and the like, these would be classified as auditions in name, but also may well be classified as viewing in terms of their actual physical format. |
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Dec 20, 2011 3:37:10 GMT
A lead is a lead, asking some questions can't hurt. We just need someone who can speak German?  I can speak German! :-) |
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Dec 20, 2011 3:43:12 GMT
Yes, I wish people who report such obscure leads as this would not have the validity of the lead immediately debated. Why on earth not? It's only by asking questions and thinking about the potential source of the information that you can ascertain whether a supposed lead is worth following or not. The absolute worst route to take is just to take everything at face value and query nothing. Because we want people to feel welcome to come forward with information. I was not talking about being skeptical. I was talking about stating that leads are probably worthless because of the long passage of time. My comparison was to the information that resulted in the recovery of the Metropolis print. If reactions to that lead had been "No doubt that print would have been discarded long ago," which was obviously more probable than not, the lead would never have been checked. Sure, be skeptical, but people should feel welcome to come forward with leads. |
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Dec 20, 2011 3:47:00 GMT
Yes, I wish people who report such obscure leads as this would not have the validity of the lead immediately debated. It almost goes without saying that if the prints were there, they would have been returned, etc. etc. However, occasionally such tiny bits of information pay off, so I think people should be encouraged to raise them! When the person offers something to base their lead on, such as an article, it is quite different than somebody saying "I have a friend who has a friend that has another friend that has a film collection." Although leads should be met with a certain amount of skepticism, I think it would be best to point them towards somebody currently in the field looking for lost material that can listen to the lead, and potentially follow up on it. If people get the idea that they are only wasting their time because of what they perceive as a bad reception for coming forward with their information, then we could end up losing good leads in the future. It is just a thought to ponder. I appreciate Maurice for coming forward with this. I apologize if any of my posts concerning the article were taken as being insulting in any way. Yes indeed, I appreciate Maurice coming forward too. He shouldn't be called 'Darren Gregory' immediately and his lead shouldn't just be dismissed quickly either. People who come forward with information should just be thanked politely! That should be done if we want others to do the same. |
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Post by Jim Exley on Dec 20, 2011 10:09:57 GMT
I'm inclined to agree with both sides! Only further research can prove or debunk it, and I'm sure the information will be acted upon as appropriate. Presumably BBC documentation for this prospective sale, if extant, could substantiate the story. Veering off topic for a moment, the mention that ZDF bought Star Trek instead brings back bizarre memories of myself and fellow students watching "Raumschiff Enterprise" on ZDF in the early nineties, usually after liquid refreshment, and despite not being able to understand German!  Regards Jim |
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Post by Joe Haynes on Dec 20, 2011 11:56:33 GMT
Is anyone going to contact the writer of the article? or ZDF? (sorry if this sounds a bit to the point)
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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Dec 20, 2011 15:36:18 GMT
i bet being a german station ZDF have better records than the BBC and can tell you exactly what happened to those prints if they ever existed |
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Post by John Andersen on Dec 20, 2011 19:21:12 GMT
Is anyone going to contact the writer of the article? or ZDF? (sorry if this sounds a bit to the point) Maurice said he was already in the process of contacting the writer to confirm that the information from his sources is correct. If there is a confirmation, then hopefully somebody with BBC ties can access the records to see if they sent prints to ZDF in Germany. As for contacting ZDF, I recommend that it would be better for a representative of the BBC to contact them. |
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Post by Rob Moss on Dec 20, 2011 19:45:19 GMT
As for contacting ZDF, I recommend that it would be better for a representative of the BBC to contact them. Undoubtedly the case. |
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Post by Jon Preddle on Dec 22, 2011 23:40:44 GMT
Is anyone going to contact the writer of the article? or ZDF? (sorry if this sounds a bit to the point) Maurice said he was already in the process of contacting the writer to confirm that the information from his sources is correct. If there is a confirmation, then hopefully somebody with BBC ties can access the records to see if they sent prints to ZDF in Germany. As for contacting ZDF, I recommend that it would be better for a representative of the BBC to contact them. Both the writer and ZDF have been contacted... But it's Christmas, so don't expect an outcome until the new year. |
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Post by John Andersen on Dec 23, 2011 6:51:58 GMT
Maurice said he was already in the process of contacting the writer to confirm that the information from his sources is correct. If there is a confirmation, then hopefully somebody with BBC ties can access the records to see if they sent prints to ZDF in Germany. As for contacting ZDF, I recommend that it would be better for a representative of the BBC to contact them. Both the writer and ZDF have been contacted... But it's Christmas, so don't expect an outcome until the new year. Waiting is not a problem. Most fans understand this kind of thing takes time, especially for something that might have occurred over forty years ago. As a fan, the one thing I appreciate most is accuracy in reports concerning missing episodes. I hope for the best, but I realize those episodes still being at ZDF is a long shot. |
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Post by Simon Broad on Dec 23, 2011 9:12:12 GMT
Sorry to get to the point but is their a chance ice warriors is in Germany??
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Post by John Wall on Dec 23, 2011 9:21:28 GMT
Sorry to get to the point but is their a chance ice warriors is in Germany?? In an infinite universe anything is possible. |
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