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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Sept 7, 2008 21:04:04 GMT
were any Hartnell episodes shown in France? i ask because a french friend (who i think is probably having false memories) says he remembers seeing william hartnell as a child. i can't see this as being correct because he is younger than me so this would mean he saw it in the seventies... but i'll throw it in and brave an avalanche of ridicule!  as an aside to this though can somebody clarify the situation with overseas sales for me because i'm not sure if i've got it right or not. is it the case that the overseas sales list is incomplete because the beeb never kept their records and that the only way the overseas list has been compiled is by the junking records or the records of the recipient country? i ask as it seems to me that if there were sales to other countries not on the compiled list then it is more likely that these have existing copies as they were never asked to junk anything... just a thought. hope someone can clarify it for me. |
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Post by Daniel O'Brien on Sept 8, 2008 7:35:23 GMT
A 1980s edition of 'Doctor Who Magazine' stated that the only story to be shown in France was an edited version of 'Genesis of the Daleks'. No idea how accurate this information was (or still is). As you suggest, your friend has probably just misremembered what he saw (maybe a TV showing of one of the Cushing films?) It would be wonderful if there were missing Hartnell stories lurking just across the channel but also too good to be true.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Sept 8, 2008 9:20:21 GMT
France first showed Doctor Who in 1986, having purchased the 11 stories of Seasons 12 and 13.
Richard
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Post by Ash Stewart on Sept 8, 2008 11:26:40 GMT
Whereabouts in France? Would it have been possible for people in North France to receive UK transmissions?
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Post by William Martin on Sept 8, 2008 17:11:54 GMT
could it possibly have been the channel islands?
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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Sept 8, 2008 18:02:50 GMT
he's from paris.
i will grill him for more details when i get the chance. but i'm sure this must be a false memory maybe caused by seing a clip somewhere, as he has spent a lot of time in the uk.
has anyone got any info on my second query above?
also has anyone done any digging at the bbc's written archives which are online and open to academic research?
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Post by Richard Bignell on Sept 8, 2008 18:40:54 GMT
is it the case that the overseas sales list is incomplete because the beeb never kept their records and that the only way the overseas list has been compiled is by the junking records or the records of the recipient country? No. Records still exist within the BBC, although they are in various locations throughout the Corporation. However, these only indicate the countries that material was sold to and not the individual stations. These are not open to public scrutiny however. The BBC's Written Archives aren't online. Richard |
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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Sept 8, 2008 21:21:25 GMT
No. Records still exist within the BBC, although they are in various locations throughout the Corporation. However, these only indicate the countries that material was sold to and not the individual stations. These are not open to public scrutiny however. really! forgive my ignorance but if they are not open to public scrutiny how is it known that they don't include the stations? it would seem strange to me if the bbc did not know who paid them for their product. and their accountants would be equally puzzled. in the articles i've read i sort of read into them that it was known who had taken possession of the prints in the receiving countries. Richard could you explain further as its so bewildering - i'm sure a few others (new to the lost episode saga) like myself are a little non-plussed by this 'record keeping'? The BBC's Written Archives aren't online. Richard apologies - i did not mean to say the Archive was online only that its mentioned on bbc website and it says the information they have is open to reseach at their centre. www.bbc.co.uk/heritage/more/wac.shtml |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Sept 8, 2008 22:19:44 GMT
really! forgive my ignorance but if they are not open to public scrutiny how is it known that they don't include the stations? Because I've seen some of them! Well, BBC Enterprises would have known as the money was going to them. Various departments around the BBC also needed to have the general information as to which countries where purchasing programmes for rights reasons among other things. For many countries you could fairly easily work out the company that received them as most places only had the one broadcaster. Ah, I see! Well, they are open, so long as you have a legitimate reason to be there. You can't turn up just because your a fan of a particular programme. You usually have to have deep pockets as well as it can end up costing quite a lot! Richard |
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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Sept 9, 2008 12:53:36 GMT
Richard here is a link further detailing public access arrangements for bbc archives. www.bbc.co.uk/foi/docs/historical_information.shtmli have made tentative enquiries about accessing the BBC Transcription Services archive and was told that there were no fees involved to start with. i didn't tell them the real reason i wanted to view them - just that i was doing research into overseas sales. you seem to have done some extensive research in the past. do you think anymore useful information can be derived from the BBC Transcription Services records. I was informed by one of the staff that this was the dept of the bbc responsible for negotiating overseas sales and would also have organised prints for shipment. I was also told the archive would hold all the documentation that was surviving including external and internal correspondence (obviously 'surviving' is the operative word - there may not be much... but then again?). would it not be possible to organise a visit of 'researchers' to have a look at these files or do you think it would be unproductive? |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Sept 9, 2008 13:39:34 GMT
you seem to have done some extensive research in the past. do you think anymore useful information can be derived from the BBC Transcription Services records. I can't imagine that there would be anything of any use in the Transcription records, Rob, as they'd have nothing to do with sending out film prints. Transcription was solely concerned with transcribing audio music, comedy and drama to disc and selling them to overseas radio stations. The Transcription Service is now BBC Radio International. Richard |
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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Sept 9, 2008 14:22:56 GMT
I can't imagine that there would be anything of any use in the Transcription records, Rob, as they'd have nothing to do with sending out film prints. Transcription was solely concerned with transcribing audio music, comedy and drama to disc and selling them to overseas radio stations. The Transcription Service is now BBC Radio International. the lady i spoke to must have misinterpreted what i was asking for and named the wrong dept. But basically she did say all the surviving written records of the bbc are in this archive and includes all departments. the overseas TV program sales department or whatever it was called at the time therefore should also be there. do you think there may be anything useful to be had if the correct department can be identified? |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Sept 9, 2008 14:38:31 GMT
But basically she did say all the surviving written records of the bbc are in this archive and includes all departments. the overseas TV program sales department or whatever it was called at the time therefore should also be there? Ah, right. In that case, she has misinformed you! Television Sales were handled by BBC Enterprises, not by the BBC in general and Enterprises sales information has not been centrally archived with the other Written Archives. If the paperwork still exists (and there's no certainty to that - there's tons of BBC documentation that's been disposed of over the years by various departments, hence her "all *surviving* records comment), then it'll be held in storage by BBC Worldwide, and as a business, they don't allow public access to their records. You can find little bits and pieces of tangential information on overseas sales, but it's few and far between. As someone who has been going to the Written Archives for 13 years now, I've come across very little of it and when I have, it's usually been completely by accident. Richard |
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Post by Rob Hutchinson on Sept 9, 2008 15:25:44 GMT
ok i'm beginning to get a picture now
Richard, can you answer the following:
where do bbc worldwide keep their archive?
have you approached them directly for access to the archive?
if so, how long ago?
what excuses did they make for not giving access to the information?
has anyone ever gained access to the archive?
i know this information will not help find any episodes but i think it would give the rest of the forum an insight into how difficult it is to do this research.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Sept 9, 2008 15:58:33 GMT
where do bbc worldwide keep their archive? No idea, I'm afraid. I've been told that *if* any relevant records still exist they'll be in deep archival storage by now, as lots of stuff was moved during John Birt's reign at the BBC. Yes. Last time, about a year ago. They don't need to make excuses. They're a commercial business and not obliged to share any archival information about their company with anyone. As I said, there's no telling if the desired information still exists at BBC Worldwide, and if it does, they're certainly not going to allocate resources to try and dig it out. Not that I know of. But then, I don't even know if there really is an "archive" as such. That said, it's not really that important, as the Restoration Team already know whereabouts in the BBC they can get full details of all the countries that Doctor Who was sold to. It's just a matter of getting access to it. Richard |
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