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Post by Scott Douglas on Jun 13, 2016 2:19:42 GMT
The episode exists. Sadly the collectors who have it are well aware of its worth and it is unlikely to surface in our lifetime. I hope I am proven wrong though. The original is a telerecording. The reel changed hands many years ago. If we won't be able to see it in our lifetimes, then surely the collectors won't be able to profit from it in theirs! What I would say though is that when it does, eventually, fall out of copyright then I imagine it will surface. But I am surprised that at the very least - a screen grab - hasn't even surfaced. By the way, what many consider to be another holy grail John Lennon's "Kenwood" 67 home movies has generated two screen grabs. I wish there was something a bit more concrete on the '66 TOTP than just conjecture!
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Post by Scott Douglas on Jun 13, 2016 2:24:18 GMT
Its not about profit it is about the prestige associated with having vision no other mortals do, particularly something as sought after as this. Falling out of copyright (unlikely to happen anyway) would make no difference. A million dollars could be offered and it would still fall on deaf ears. The collector(s) concerned will be happy to take that to their graves. The sad thing is, in another 50 years time will anyone actually care any more?
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Post by ajsmith on Jun 13, 2016 8:49:16 GMT
The episode exists. Sadly the collectors who have it are well aware of its worth and it is unlikely to surface in our lifetime. I hope I am proven wrong though. The original is a telerecording. The reel changed hands many years ago. If we won't be able to see it in our lifetimes, then surely the collectors won't be able to profit from it in theirs! What I would say though is that when it does, eventually, fall out of copyright then I imagine it will surface. But I am surprised that at the very least - a screen grab - hasn't even surfaced. By the way, what many consider to be another holy grail John Lennon's "Kenwood" 67 home movies has generated two screen grabs. I wish there was something a bit more concrete on the '66 TOTP than just conjecture! Wow, I didn't know anything about John Lennon home movies from '67! Do you know where the screengrabs were published/are available online? (if they are in the public domain).
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Post by simonwells61 on Jun 13, 2016 10:12:24 GMT
Its not about profit it is about the prestige associated with having vision no other mortals do, particularly something as sought after as this. Falling out of copyright (unlikely to happen anyway) would make no difference. A million dollars could be offered and it would still fall on deaf ears. The collector(s) concerned will be happy to take that to their graves. The sad thing is, in another 50 years time will anyone actually care any more? I agree with you, and given the cavalier way that Apple presented the Beatles 1 DVD transfers, I doubt the Fabs/Apple aren't that bothered either.
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Post by robertreinstein on Jun 13, 2016 10:55:52 GMT
If we won't be able to see it in our lifetimes, then surely the collectors won't be able to profit from it in theirs! What I would say though is that when it does, eventually, fall out of copyright then I imagine it will surface. But I am surprised that at the very least - a screen grab - hasn't even surfaced. By the way, what many consider to be another holy grail John Lennon's "Kenwood" 67 home movies has generated two screen grabs. I wish there was something a bit more concrete on the '66 TOTP than just conjecture! Wow, I didn't know anything about John Lennon home movies from '67! Do you know where the screengrabs were published/are available online? (if they are in the public domain). I'm assuming these are the movies being discussed: www.beatlesondvd.com/19651969/19680609-jl-01.htm
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Post by simonwells61 on Jun 13, 2016 21:28:47 GMT
Wow, I didn't know anything about John Lennon home movies from '67! Do you know where the screengrabs were published/are available online? (if they are in the public domain). I'm assuming these are the movies being discussed: www.beatlesondvd.com/19651969/19680609-jl-01.htmThese are nice films, but they are around on youtube. No the Lennon "Kenwood '67" home movies are probably in the same league as the TOTP 66 - except a few screen grabs - albeit hugely grainy - have escaped. Let's hope they do eventually surface! kenwoodlennon.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/kenwood-johns-home-movies.html
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Post by Peter Stirling on Jun 13, 2016 23:10:09 GMT
Its not about profit it is about the prestige associated with having vision no other mortals do, particularly something as sought after as this. Falling out of copyright (unlikely to happen anyway) would make no difference. A million dollars could be offered and it would still fall on deaf ears. The collector(s) concerned will be happy to take that to their graves. The sad thing is, in another 50 years time will anyone actually care any more? 'Public domain' can happen to sound recordings in the UK but not visual material such as TV and Films ..it's a sort of reverse to what happens in the USA. In the UK copyright on records use to expire after about 50 years but not on films... If you recall Cliff Richard lent Tony Blair his tropical island pad for a holiday when he was getting worried about his old records expiring - so the law may have been changed after that ? Your last sentence is so poignant.
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Post by robertreinstein on Jun 13, 2016 23:44:29 GMT
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Kev Hunter
Member
The only difference between a rut and a groove is the depth
Posts: 608
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Post by Kev Hunter on Jun 14, 2016 13:01:54 GMT
The vocal was probably not live, but this was one appearance that was not pre-taped without an audience. It was a unique live appearance (rather than a live performance) in the sense that it was broadcast live, as it happened, it wasn't pre-taped. So if the audience went out of control and got onto the stage, viewers would have seen it, they couldn't have done a re-take. But this was a BBC studio audience so I suspect there was very little (if any) screaming and no shots of fainting or weeping girls, the crowd probably just attempted to dance to what couldn't really be described as particularly dance-able tunes (the backing to "Paperback Writer" stops dead at several junctions whilst "Rain" would have felt like a real dirge to people then only used to more upbeat numbers or ballads), so I guess this appearance gave the first solid impression to the British public that Beatlemania was on the wane and therefore did little to boost disappointing sales of the single, another reason why this would be interesting footage to view, if it really does exist. Hope it does, but I wouldn't be expecting to see something as powerful and exciting as The Rolling Stones performance of "Satisfaction" on RSG that same year. From the many stills available to see on t' interweb, it does look like a fairly low-key affair. www.google.co.uk/search?q=beatles+totp+1966&biw=1366&bih=631&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwir38O3yafNAhWlCMAKHXxCAeIQ_AUIBygC
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Post by ajsmith on Jun 15, 2016 4:09:57 GMT
It was a unique live appearance (rather than a live performance) in the sense that it was broadcast live, as it happened, it wasn't pre-taped. So if the audience went out of control and got onto the stage, viewers would have seen it, they couldn't have done a re-take. But this was a BBC studio audience so I suspect there was very little (if any) screaming and no shots of fainting or weeping girls, the crowd probably just attempted to dance to what couldn't really be described as particularly dance-able tunes (the backing to "Paperback Writer" stops dead at several junctions whilst "Rain" would have felt like a real dirge to people then only used to more upbeat numbers or ballads), so I guess this appearance gave the first solid impression to the British public that Beatlemania was on the wane and therefore did little to boost disappointing sales of the single, another reason why this would be interesting footage to view, if it really does exist. Hope it does, but I wouldn't be expecting to see something as powerful and exciting as The Rolling Stones performance of "Satisfaction" on RSG that same year. From the many stills available to see on t' interweb, it does look like a fairly low-key affair. www.google.co.uk/search?q=beatles+totp+1966&biw=1366&bih=631&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwir38O3yafNAhWlCMAKHXxCAeIQ_AUIBygCThe most interesting photo by far there is the one with the audience present, which I'd never seen before. The rest are all rehearsal shots of the band only which I'd seen many times before. Had no idea a photo existed with the audience present. I guess this is the last time a general audience would get so close to The Beatles in performance ('Hey Jude' video aside) Point of interest: Why do Paul George and Ringo appear to be wearing poppies?
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Post by simonwells61 on Jun 15, 2016 9:04:26 GMT
The most interesting photo by far there is the one with the audience present, which I'd never seen before. The rest are all rehearsal shots of the band only which I'd seen many times before. Had no idea a photo existed with the audience present. I guess this is the last time a general audience would get so close to The Beatles in performance ('Hey Jude' video aside) Point of interest: Why do Paul George and Ringo appear to be wearing poppies? Interview with John from that day explains all. www.beatlesinterviews.org/db1966.09jl.beatles.html
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Post by Kev Mulrenan on Jun 17, 2016 20:20:51 GMT
If it ever does eventually see the light of day I anticipate being somewhat underwhelmed by it. It's a pity that they still felt under pressure to wear matching suits as late as 1966 when appearing in public, it would have been a far more unique and interesting piece of footage had John been wearing the rectangular orange shades and paisley shirt as seen on the Sullivan clips, yet in front of an audience. As it is, miming along in black & white in the same old suits, it probably wouldn't look that much different to the appearances on "Ready Steady Go" in 1964, the only striking difference being John's new guitar. Footage of the Beatles! And from Top of the Pops! How could anyone be underwhelmed by that!
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Post by simonwells61 on Jun 18, 2016 13:58:15 GMT
If it ever does eventually see the light of day I anticipate being somewhat underwhelmed by it. It's a pity that they still felt under pressure to wear matching suits as late as 1966 when appearing in public, it would have been a far more unique and interesting piece of footage had John been wearing the rectangular orange shades and paisley shirt as seen on the Sullivan clips, yet in front of an audience. As it is, miming along in black & white in the same old suits, it probably wouldn't look that much different to the appearances on "Ready Steady Go" in 1964, the only striking difference being John's new guitar. Footage of the Beatles! Agreed, and when you look at the rehearsal shots, it's sad they chose the monochrome appearance. Still in black and white...... media.gettyimages.com/photos/john-lennon-and-george-harrison-of-the-beatles-playing-live-on-top-of-picture-id56631757
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Post by garyfreeman on Jul 1, 2016 17:45:17 GMT
Apart from the fact that we all want this footage to exist , is there any substantial evidence out there that does prove its existence. (Just I know it exists does not count!)
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Post by ajsmith on Jul 1, 2016 20:47:57 GMT
Apart from the fact that we all want this footage to exist , is there any substantial evidence out there that does prove its existence. (Just I know it exists does not count!) I quoted a guy earlier in this thread (Nik33 of the Steve Hoffman forum) who says he has seen it. Yes I know that's anecdotal but I'm familiar with his posts on that forum, and he knows his stuff on surviving Beatles footage. He's also very quick (sometimes too quick I think) to shoot down rumours of material that in his option doesn't exist. (for instance, I've had a several arguments with him about the possibility of Hamburg footage existing - he argues point blank that no Hamburg footage exists, I argue it's impossible to prove a negative etc etc) so he doesn't strike me as the type to fudge details or blow a memory out of proportion - as far as I can tell he's a well connected uber Beatles fan who knows the right people and has seen this footage. Other evidence is - press reports that the footage was offered to Apple for Anthology, but rejected due to poor quality, and the fact that the Hollies and Kinks appearances from the same show just happen to have turned up in collector circles.
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