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Post by johnstewart on Nov 11, 2007 20:06:48 GMT
John would you know if these survive? Heritage . Ancient Greek drama from Thames (sort of I Claudius for kids) Rules Rules Rules . groovy stuff from ATV Don't know about RULES RULES RULES; but a print of another ATV show I believe 'THE FACTS ARE THESE' was traced to a small library in North London which had a copy of one for some reason. ATV are erratic on their holdings; but shows made on film; and I suspect entries to 'RULES RULES RULES' were as it was a drama have a better chance in their archive than VT. As that evidence proves; also ATV stuff is knocking about nowhere near the original archives or ITC. Re: 'Heritage'. there are some clips of some thing like this I think featuring Nigel Green on '21 years of ITV schools' 1977. The material in existence at that time was mainly c. 1962 - 1964 and B+W T/Rs.
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Post by johnstewart on Nov 12, 2007 18:09:47 GMT
Just to add that ATV schools prgrammes like STOP LOOK LISTEN have found their way to film collector fairs. I suspect the prints were duplicates originally for hire by the sales division rather than missing prints.
That might be an avenue.
RULES RULES RULES was one of 3 ITV schools programmes I recall in the same period 74 - 75.
These were YOU AND THE WORLD. This featured a similar animated title sequence to GRANGE HILL and similar stock music.
And THE TIME OF YOUR LIFE. The existing clips is a link with the titles for an episode called 'BIG BOY NOW'. I suspect this was part of a show reel made up for a TEST CARD SOCIETY showing.
I would think someone has a copy of the off air master of the whole show.
All these shows featured one off play dramas; sometimes serialised in 3 or more parts; and were based on social issues. seem to recall Billy Hamon as a leather boy type in TIME OF YOUR LIFE.
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Post by hartley967 on Nov 12, 2007 21:45:30 GMT
Thanks John.
Yes 'Rules Rules Rules' I think dates from the 60s? and I think 'Stop Look Listen' proved very popular for school shows and therefore there are plenty of prints around.
'Time of your Life' may have been a remake of the AR school show called 'You and the World' ?
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Post by Stephen Doran on Nov 13, 2007 8:56:21 GMT
Helen Worth &Charles Bolton were in Time Of Your Life .Billy Hamon was in The Siege Of Golden Hill.
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Post by johnstewart on Nov 13, 2007 21:43:40 GMT
Sorry to sound ignorant Steve - but what was 'the siege of golden hill' ?
Does this exist at all ?
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Post by Stephen Doran on Nov 14, 2007 9:20:04 GMT
Hi John It was a Sunday afternoon serial usually on LWT after a old B/W film in 1975. ;D
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Post by benclarke on Nov 15, 2007 22:10:33 GMT
Hi, First of all Stephen, sorry but I haven't actually got any Television Club books at all myself - I have photocopies and photographs of reference copies, and that one I did post from Spring 1967 was a photocopy with the colour added back to it - rather well I think! I am trying to make some more of them presentable. There are a couple of the other programmes under discussion that I have been prepping information about for my website - which should be open any day now! I believe the latest Scene programme that is not listed as existing either on public Infax or in the Kaleidoscope Guide is "Blackout", from 4/10/73. It was a play by Louis Marks, and it was never repeated after that first week it was shown in 1973. Then as far as I can tell Scene exists complete after that, the next episodes were "Member of the Union" and then, after a couple of repeats, "The Ballad of Ben Bagot" just as you said John! Before that, I count another 5 Scene dramas and 16 documentaries that no longer exist. However one of those documentaries, "Member of Parliament" from 1/10/70, is listed on the BFI database with an "NFA Catalogue" entry - does that mean this programme actually exists in the BFI archives? ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/86158Also, I do not know which Scene episodes were shown on 25/9/69 or 15/1/70 because they were not listed in the Radio Times. Does anybody know by any chance? Furthermore, one of the Scene programmes listed on public Infax only seems to be some film sequences, not the whole programme: Flashpoint Middle East Programme 1: The Promised Land catalogue.bbc.co.uk/catalogue/infax/programme/ESB6536FSo if I have done the maths right I think there are 22 Scene episodes which do not exist complete (plus possibly 2 more depending what was shown on those 2 mystery dates). The list from Kaleidoscope on lostshows.com shows several episodes where only film recordings exist of videotaped programmes, but I don't really know anything about that. www.lostshows.com/default.aspx?programme=571129f9-f3d3-4b65-8725-77bd1a01f65eNow, Stop Look Listen. The first 10 (out of 26) original Harvey Higgins episodes were released as classroom films by Rank in early 1972 just after they were first shown by ATV (according to a news item in Visual Education at the time), maybe all of the rest followed? I don't know if any of the Chris Tarrant episodes came out in the same way. By my count there were 113 Chris Tarrant episodes, but it is really hard to count because they kept remaking episodes on the same subject and with the exact same title. If anybody has better information like an archive list or the ITV Schools annual programme guides that would be really, really useful. Ben.
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Post by Stephen Doran on Nov 16, 2007 8:57:34 GMT
Hi Ben,Yes it was very good that photocopy you put on i didnt realise i thought it was a actual book print.
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Post by benclarke on Nov 26, 2007 13:00:50 GMT
Hi, I believe the latest Scene programme that is not listed as existing either on public Infax or in the Kaleidoscope Guide is "Blackout", from 4/10/73. It was a play by Louis Marks, and it was never repeated after that first week it was shown in 1973. Then as far as I can tell Scene exists complete after that Sorry, that's all wrong, I hadn't bothered checking spring 1974 because they didn't have the Radio Timeses at the first library I went to! Willis Hall's play "They Don't All Open Men's Boutiques", which was a repeat of an adult evening broadcast I believe, was shown in Scene on 21/3/74, and there was a documentary "Sportsmen and Politicians" on 28/3/74, neither of which seem to exist on public Infax. I don't know which programmes were shown in the first 4 weeks of spring 1974 (less printed due to national emergency) can anybody help? If not I will check the teacher's notes next year. With apologies for the plug, my website is now open. Here is my stab at a complete list of Scene: www.lookingandseeing.co.uk/site/SceneHere is my coverage of Television Club, so far with details of all the 1960s families plus the 1971 serial "Roy and the Danelli Job". It has pictures of a few more pupil's books with varying quality: www.lookingandseeing.co.uk/site/Television_ClubAs far as missing episodes go, this list for the the Granada series Discovery has extant episodes noted where I could find details on public catalogues: www.lookingandseeing.co.uk/site/Discovery/episodes(The episode list might be incomplete around 1966 because I was relying on London region listings then, I still need to check out the alternatives) There is also a fairly in-depth article about Discovery: www.lookingandseeing.co.uk/site/DiscoveryAnd various other programmes covered already. Any corrections or further information etc would be most gratefully received. Ben.
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Post by Stephen Doran on Nov 26, 2007 15:36:05 GMT
First of all Hello Ben its a very good site havent read all yet;That episode The Police And You from Scene might be the Kid nicking in the record shop i recall watching.
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Post by lpmoderator on Nov 26, 2007 16:34:50 GMT
Any corrections or further information etc would be most gratefully received. Ben. A very interesting resource. Good to have a new website too, on an area of TV that has so far been poorly covered. Looking forward to seeing it expanding further.
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Post by johnstewart on Jan 3, 2008 21:35:56 GMT
Does anyone know who made 'DRAMA' (ITV).
Worrying there seems to be none held in the ITN archive.
It ran from mid 60s to about 1975.
Just wondered what TV companies material is now held in the Itn archive?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2008 10:29:38 GMT
I remember "Drama" too. It may have been made by Rediffusion though (not sure), which would explain why it doesn´t turn up on the ITN database.
The ITV companies covered by the database (i.e. by Granada copyright) include Granada, LWT, Tyne Tees, Yorkshire, Central, Anglia, West Country, HTV, Carlton, ATV. Although i´m not sure if some of the material is yet included on it (e.g. ATV stuff, which is a big archive and hasn´t as yet been integrated into the listings). The only notable larger companies that are not covered by the same ownership are ones such as Thames and Southern (and ABC and Rediffusion from the older franchise holders, obviously).
With the ITN database though, I wish they´d indicate what exists (rather than it being a listing of - some although not all - shows that were made but may not survive)!
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Post by A.Doe on Jan 5, 2008 17:55:41 GMT
Still haven't found my files on it. However if you do a specific search on SCHOOLS CLOCK it won't come up. I think you have to get the infax link through another programme. I'm sure I typed in 'BBC SCHOOLS' and this was the only item that came up under that specific heading. Hi LP - Have found my freehand notes for this by chance. It says 'BBC SCHOOLS CLOCK - 24.9.57'. Under 'first day of schools TV'. First, hello, sorry for using a 'handle' instead of my real name, I didn't see that bit in my hurry to sign up My name is Allen, and I have been reading this forum for fun today, and stumbled upon this thread. I am interested in schools TV of the past, mainly from a continuity and presentation point of view, but also I enjoy the old Look And Read repeats on CBBC etc... and have some schools TV on DVD-R that I've got from others. Now, the 'Schools Clock' is a very interesting item to me. I didn't realise that there was a copy at the BBC, not that I would've known anyway unless I'd stumbled upon it using Infax. That particular piece of presentation is not seen often. There are 2 in existence, and Jason Robertson of Sub-TV has a copy of both... www.sub-tv.co.uk/bbcschools.asp... and they appear to be from towards the end of it's use in 1972. It's also known as the 'Piechart'. To know that one exists from the start, and indeed the first day of BBC Schools broadcasts is very good news. We'll never see it though
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Post by johnstewart on Jan 8, 2008 20:06:38 GMT
I didn't know the early BBC schools pie chart existed - don't think when schools began - c. 1957? - there was a pie chart.
There does seem to be a 'schools clock' listed on INFAX.
The existing know 'pie' precedes an edtion of the apparently off air recorded series 'MATHS TODAY'. This dates from 1967 and has a percussive; glockenspiel and shaker theme music.
This is the later version in which the whole clock design sudenly disappears to reveal the 'second hand' revolving.
A few reconstructions have been posted on 'YouTube' but these seem to contrast what myself and Laurence Piper recall.
In one I've recently seen there is a fade and dissolve of the segmented design; which I'm sure is completely wrong.
The earlier 1964 - 66 used a cello theme. What I now recall of that version suggests that after 10 to 15 secs of music; one piece of the design suddenly disappeared to reveal the clock hand underneath. I think this clock hand was not in regular clock time; but 'jumped' every 3 seconds. When it eventually hit the next segment this would disappear. The 3 second lapse would explain why sometimes I looked away; and disappointed missed the next segment disappear. I calculate that it would have disappeared on the second of the three seconds; so in that moment looking away you might miss it.
Its also been suggested that two of the different coloured sections disappeared together at a time effectively disappearing in thirds; but I only seem to recall each different coloured slice popping away when the clock hand hit it.
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