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Post by simoncurtis on Aug 25, 2023 23:03:44 GMT
There is no preservation order or listed status to protect vintage TV recordings. I worry, With the changing demographic across the Anglosphere, and the demonising of British history, heritage and culture, How safe are the Archives?
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Aug 26, 2023 6:54:03 GMT
My question is: How safe is this forum from threads that can pretty much ONLY lead to unpleasantness?
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Post by Dan S on Aug 26, 2023 13:56:01 GMT
Recordings are everywhere. There is no *THE* archives.
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Post by John Wall on Aug 26, 2023 22:36:50 GMT
Anything can be hit by a tornado.
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Post by simoncurtis on Aug 27, 2023 20:53:31 GMT
My question is: How safe is this forum from threads that can pretty much ONLY lead to unpleasantness? I'm a pleasant person with no criminal record The protection of our cultural heritage is extremely important. To deter people from destroying it, Anyone found vandalising a museum, library or archive etc, should receive a mandatory 20 year prison sentence
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Post by George D on Aug 28, 2023 15:35:25 GMT
The best preservation, besides archives, is to have the most copies in circulation. Most shows become lost, when the only copy becomes lost or damaged
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Aug 28, 2023 18:38:04 GMT
My question is: How safe is this forum from threads that can pretty much ONLY lead to unpleasantness? I'm a pleasant person with no criminal record The protection of our cultural heritage is extremely important. To deter people from destroying it, Anyone found vandalising a museum, library or archive etc, should receive a mandatory 20 year prison sentence What about vandalising a forum with tendentious remarks, that have proven in the past to convince no-one to change their opinions (although they did convince the moderators to lock the threads)? What are "the archives" anyway? BBC? ITV? The British Library? The BFI? Are they not more in danger from cuts and concentration on profit? Anyway, you, the self-proclaimed pleasant person, lost me at "the demonising of British history". That just makes me think, "Ugh, it's going to be one of THOSE threads... again.". Not that it's JUST you, by the way. No, pretty much everyone already has their pre-determined views, so this all seems to me like a dead-horse-flogging-exercise.
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Post by John Green on Aug 28, 2023 19:25:17 GMT
like a dead-horse-flogging-exercise. I was tempted to say that the horse has already bolted, though the British Museum is busily trying to establish what he might have carted off with him. (Allegedly). "Nearly 2,000 artefacts from the British Museum are thought to have been stolen or destroyed by just one thief, it was reported last night. The suspected criminal, who is believed to have been plundering the museum for years, could have removed millions of pounds worth of items without being detected. ....It subsequently emerged that a number of the items had previously appeared on eBay at rock bottom prices. They include an item of Roman jewellery made from onyx which was advertised on the site in 2016 with a price tag of £40. Experts believe the piece, which did not attract any bids, is actually worth between £25,000 and £50,000." www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12430415/British-Museum-serial-thief-stole-destroyed-nearly-2-000-precious-artefacts-worth-millions-pounds-YEARS-without-going-detected.htmlWho watches the people who are supposed to be watching the people who are watching the people? Archiving is an ongoing and costly process.
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sonnybh
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Post by sonnybh on Aug 28, 2023 20:24:41 GMT
I'm a pleasant person with no criminal record The protection of our cultural heritage is extremely important. To deter people from destroying it, Anyone found vandalising a museum, library or archive etc, should receive a mandatory 20 year prison sentence What about vandalising a forum with tendentious remarks, that have proven in the past to convince no-one to change their opinions (although they did convince the moderators to lock the threads)? What are "the archives" anyway? BBC? ITV? The British Library? The BFI? Are they not more in danger from cuts and concentration on profit? Anyway, you, the self-proclaimed pleasant person, lost me at "the demonising of British history". That just makes me think, "Ugh, it's going to be one of THOSE threads... again.". Not that it's JUST you, by the way. No, pretty much everyone already has their pre-determined views, so this all seems to me like a dead-horse-flogging-exercise.
Flippant expressions like that set my alarm bells ringing as well!
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Post by John Wall on Aug 28, 2023 23:08:51 GMT
I was tempted to say that the horse has already bolted, though the British Museum is busily trying to establish what he might have carted off with him. (Allegedly). "Nearly 2,000 artefacts from the British Museum are thought to have been stolen or destroyed by just one thief, it was reported last night. The suspected criminal, who is believed to have been plundering the museum for years, could have removed millions of pounds worth of items without being detected. ....It subsequently emerged that a number of the items had previously appeared on eBay at rock bottom prices. They include an item of Roman jewellery made from onyx which was advertised on the site in 2016 with a price tag of £40. Experts believe the piece, which did not attract any bids, is actually worth between £25,000 and £50,000." www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12430415/British-Museum-serial-thief-stole-destroyed-nearly-2-000-precious-artefacts-worth-millions-pounds-YEARS-without-going-detected.htmlWho watches the people who are supposed to be watching the people who are watching the people? Archiving is an ongoing and costly process. There are lots of weird aspects relating to this and much more information is needed. If, for example, someone is short of cash why half inch things worth tens of thousands and then offer them for a few tens of pounds? Addicts might pinch ,say, a TV worth a few hundred pounds and sell it for a few tens of pounds for their next fix. But is this an addiction situation? There’s probably much more to come out.
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Post by garygraham on Aug 29, 2023 3:05:58 GMT
Recordings are everywhere. There is no *THE* archives. This is mistake that people make all the time. A YouTube video is not the same as a broadcast tape. Even a DVD or MP4 file is not remotely the same. The DVD bitrate and compression can't even get close to being an identical copy even of a 40-year-old VHS tape. And a VHS tape is not the same as a broadcast tape. Good quality copies of programmes are not "everywhere." In many cases there is one tape sitting on a shelf somewhere. Even when programmes have been digitised there may just be two broadcast quality digital copies. Or even one. So these concerns are sensible. I've just been watching what's left of the 6th July 1967 Top of the Pops. Sure part of it "survives" if you don't mind the picture and sound losing sync regularly, almost stopping at some points and disappearing completely in places. It's just a curiosity now rather than a programme that could be broadcast. Better than nothing...
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Post by anthonybartley on Aug 29, 2023 9:34:48 GMT
" The DVD bitrate and compression can't even get close to being an identical copy even of a 40-year-old VHS tape. And a VHS tape is not the same as a broadcast tape. "
A computer encode of a VHS tape would be as good as the original if encoded properly. Same for a broadcast tape. You don't lose anything. All these older formats (Umatic for example) are much lower resolution that today's HD world - so nothing is lost if recorded properly. A computer can very well do its part for preservation - but it does ultimately depend on what you're playing it on. My biggest headache trying to preserve VHS (as an example) is being able to find a VHS player that's up to scratch in this day and age, without spending a small fortune and forking out for a time base corrector.
In short, the DVD bitrate is much higher than any of these old formats - meaning it can capture them perfectly, if you know what you're doing.
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Post by John Wall on Aug 29, 2023 14:17:00 GMT
Thinking about it there are several potential issues here.
This forum exists because TV programmes that once existed no longer do. This is largely because there wasn’t really any sort of system to decide whether things were worth keeping for posterity. Consequently it was all a bit haphazard, some things survived because they were on film, others survived because there was still a market for them.
We’re now in the situation where the past can be judged by modern standards, presentism, meaning that records, i.e., films, tapes, etc are sometimes “edited” to give a version of the past considered suitable for the 21st century. This can be as simple as snipping out a line from an old radio comedy show. The concern amongst some is that the edited version might become the master, or that whole shows might be dumped for no other reason than they don’t align with current “values”. This is incredibly subjective and the only real solution is to have robust policies to prevent it.
Another aspect is the ability, or not!, to retrieve the programme from the medium storing it. This, again, requires carefully thought out policies relating to, where possible, storage of duplicates in different physical locations.
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sonnybh
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Post by sonnybh on Aug 29, 2023 20:25:03 GMT
From what heard the BBC digitisation project produced 2 D3 tapes of each 2" tapes, which I assume are stored in different places, as well as the original tapes being donated to the BFI.
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Post by John Wall on Aug 29, 2023 21:37:19 GMT
From what heard the BBC digitisation project produced 2 D3 tapes of each 2" tapes, which I assume are stored in different places, as well as the original tapes being donated to the BFI. I hope so. Many organisations back up hard discs at a physically separate location.
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