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Post by Tim Burrows on Aug 15, 2023 13:01:15 GMT
Singapore has been written to and physically checked (twice I think), per Wiped and the annals of this forum. It's been absolutely ruled out, although whether any interesting paperwork was found has yet to be disclosed.
I'm less clear on Hong Kong, although I believe it has also been inspected. It's worth noting that when they changed property in around 2012 HUNDREDS of culturally significant films were handed to China.
I'd love to hear more about both.
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Post by andyparting on Aug 15, 2023 13:46:21 GMT
Singapore has been written to and physically checked (twice I think), per Wiped and the annals of this forum. It's been absolutely ruled out, although whether any interesting paperwork was found has yet to be disclosed. I'm less clear on Hong Kong, although I believe it has also been inspected. It's worth noting that when they changed property in around 2012 HUNDREDS of culturally significant films were handed to China. I'd love to hear more about both. What about paperwork from the BBC pertaining to returns from Singapore/Hong Kong? How is it Australia's returns are documented but not these? Anyway, I thought most of HK/Singapore films were bicycled on elsewhere - which surely answers why nothing was/is there now, post-broadcast? I find this info from the BroaDWcast website helpful on this score: Hong Kong - fate of the prints - broadwcast.org/index.php/Hong_Kong#Fate_of_the_PrintsSingapore - fate of the prints - broadwcast.org/index.php/Singapore#Fate_of_the_Prints
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Post by Tim Burrows on Aug 15, 2023 14:40:51 GMT
Singapore has been written to and physically checked (twice I think), per Wiped and the annals of this forum. It's been absolutely ruled out, although whether any interesting paperwork was found has yet to be disclosed. I'm less clear on Hong Kong, although I believe it has also been inspected. It's worth noting that when they changed property in around 2012 HUNDREDS of culturally significant films were handed to China. I'd love to hear more about both. What about paperwork from the BBC pertaining to returns from Singapore/Hong Kong? How is it Australia's returns are documented but not these? Anyway, I thought most of HK/Singapore films were bicycled on elsewhere - which surely answers why nothing was/is there now, post-broadcast? I find this info from the BroaDWcast website helpful on this score: Hong Kong - fate of the prints - broadwcast.org/index.php/Hong_Kong#Fate_of_the_PrintsSingapore - fate of the prints - broadwcast.org/index.php/Singapore#Fate_of_the_Prints The Australia returns are documented because Damian Shanahan inspected the ABC records for each DW story and let it be known what his findings were. The fate of some of the HK/Singapore holdings is known, but only by virtue of ex-Singapore/HK prints turning up in Africa. No paperwork has been published, other than a written reply to a query lodged with Singapore reporting a bare DW cupboard.
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Post by michaelnorris on Aug 15, 2023 16:09:03 GMT
The Australia returns are documented because Damian Shanahan inspected the ABC records for each DW story and let it be known what his findings were. The fate of some of the HK/Singapore holdings is known, but only by virtue of ex-Singapore/HK prints turning up in Africa. No paperwork has been published, other than a written reply to a query lodged with Singapore reporting a bare DW cupboard. Yeah it seems as if Singapore may hold future treasures for us.... but not in Singapore. Anything is sure to have been Bicycled elsewhere and that's almost definitely where it would be found.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Aug 15, 2023 21:06:10 GMT
It's a process of elimination. We know that the BBC held random 16mm prints of various stories that were sold to no more than three or four countries - such as The Tenth Planet and The Invasion - which had to come from somewhere *other than Australia* because these eps don't have any censor edits.
The only points of origin for those have to be the bicycling chains that included Singapore and Gibraltar. If the RTS/GBC returned those particular eps to the BBC, then it's a strong likelihood that everything else held by those two stations went the exact same route.
Why would those stations send some back but retain others?
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Post by John Wall on Aug 15, 2023 22:48:16 GMT
overseas broadcasts of evil and tomb.pdf (9.2 KB) I’ve attached my diagram showing what happened to Evil and Tomb. It’s important to remember that newspaper listings provide intentions of what’s to be broadcast rather than records of what was broadcast. Consequently, the best explanation I have for two episodes of Tomb being advertised in Hong Kong and then all four being advertised some time later is that it was inadvertently sent to Singapore with Evil - somebody ****ed up! Both stories were shown in Singapore and Tomb was then returned to Hong Kong where it was shown, and forgotten. Two decades later it was found and sent back to Auntie. I think it’s clear that only Tomb was sent back to Hong Kong, had Evil been included it would have almost certainly survived and been sent back to Auntie with Tomb. The only unaccounted for Evil prints are those that ended up in Singapore but it’s reasonable to assume that they were either destroyed or returned to Auntie.
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Post by Tim Burrows on Aug 16, 2023 12:55:52 GMT
View AttachmentI’ve attached my diagram showing what happened to Evil and Tomb. It’s important to remember that newspaper listings provide intentions of what’s to be broadcast rather than records of what was broadcast. Consequently, the best explanation I have for two episodes of Tomb being advertised in Hong Kong and then all four being advertised some time later is that it was inadvertently sent to Singapore with Evil - somebody ****ed up! Both stories were shown in Singapore and Tomb was then returned to Hong Kong where it was shown, and forgotten. Two decades later it was found and sent back to Auntie. I think it’s clear that only Tomb was sent back to Hong Kong, had Evil been included it would have almost certainly survived and been sent back to Auntie with Tomb. The only unaccounted for Evil prints are those that ended up in Singapore but it’s reasonable to assume that they were either destroyed or returned to Auntie. I love that you have a diagram for this Are there more?
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Post by John Wall on Aug 16, 2023 14:02:46 GMT
View AttachmentI’ve attached my diagram showing what happened to Evil and Tomb. It’s important to remember that newspaper listings provide intentions of what’s to be broadcast rather than records of what was broadcast. Consequently, the best explanation I have for two episodes of Tomb being advertised in Hong Kong and then all four being advertised some time later is that it was inadvertently sent to Singapore with Evil - somebody ****ed up! Both stories were shown in Singapore and Tomb was then returned to Hong Kong where it was shown, and forgotten. Two decades later it was found and sent back to Auntie. I think it’s clear that only Tomb was sent back to Hong Kong, had Evil been included it would have almost certainly survived and been sent back to Auntie with Tomb. The only unaccounted for Evil prints are those that ended up in Singapore but it’s reasonable to assume that they were either destroyed or returned to Auntie. I love that you have a diagram for this Are there more? It was quite easy to do as there were only three sets of prints. The info came from BroaDWcast and Wiped.
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Post by Ronnie McDevitt on Aug 16, 2023 14:34:17 GMT
I love that you have a diagram for this Are there more? It was quite easy to do as there were only three sets of prints. The info came from BroaDWcast and Wiped. Well done - always good to give credit to the researchers John.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Aug 17, 2023 7:10:44 GMT
Would have the station's studios held the old 16mm films? We know by the 1970s and 1980s that BBC Toronto used a private off-site specialized facility for storage. CBC was a much bigger organisation than RTV and RTS. From the accounts of the 1987 fire, RTV's operation was confined to a small number of buildings all in the same complex. Wouldn't a smaller operation be much more likely to use a subcontractor for storage? (I'm not aware that CBC did use a contractor).
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Post by Jon Preddle on Aug 17, 2023 19:25:27 GMT
CBC was a much bigger organisation than RTV and RTS. From the accounts of the 1987 fire, RTV's operation was confined to a small number of buildings all in the same complex. Wouldn't a smaller operation be much more likely to use a subcontractor for storage? (I'm not aware that CBC did use a contractor). RTV's complex was a purpose-built TV facility, so film storage areas would have been factored into its design and construction.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Aug 18, 2023 8:24:22 GMT
Wouldn't a smaller operation be much more likely to use a subcontractor for storage? (I'm not aware that CBC did use a contractor). RTV's complex was a purpose-built TV facility, so film storage areas would have been factored into its design and construction. ironically, something CBC in Toronto didn't achieve until the 1990s. I've never understood though why a channel in a country like that would hold onto material for long after transmission, presumably as per the BBC's contract. When here they appear to have gone back to BBC's own storage facility in Toronto, at least in the 1970s.
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Post by jattree on Aug 18, 2023 14:33:40 GMT
I'm based in HK.
I've been to the abandoned Shaw Brothers Studio 6 times because I'm a big urbexer and even had a look at some of the abandoned film prints there on the off chance and yes I know Shaw is a film not a TV studio and there is pretty much zero chance there were any there.
HK has a huge number of abandoned homes which I've explored but not came across any abandoned film reels as of yet and even if I did probably the humidity would have destroyed them.
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Post by John Wall on Aug 18, 2023 15:29:09 GMT
I'm based in HK. I've been to the abandoned Shaw Brothers Studio 6 times because I'm a big urbexer and even had a look at some of the abandoned film prints there on the off chance and yes I know Shaw is a film not a TV studio and there is pretty much zero chance there were any there. HK has a huge number of abandoned homes which I've explored but not came across any abandoned film reels as of yet and even if I did probably the humidity would have destroyed them. Greetings 👍 Can you advise if there is, or was, any sort of 16mm collecting in Hong Kong please?
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Post by John Wall on Aug 18, 2023 15:34:00 GMT
RTV's complex was a purpose-built TV facility, so film storage areas would have been factored into its design and construction. ironically, something CBC in Toronto didn't achieve until the 1990s. I've never understood though why a channel in a country like that would hold onto material for long after transmission, presumably as per the BBC's contract. When here they appear to have gone back to BBC's own storage facility in Toronto, at least in the 1970s. What seems to have happened is that Auntie “used” overseas broadcasters to store material, a cunning plan! There would have been the mother of all card indexes in London and when something was sold the first task would be to find out where prints were. Then a Telex, etc would be sent instructing the holder to bicycle it on.
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