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Post by adamjordan on Apr 9, 2020 10:22:55 GMT
.......... What is significant about episode three it is the on-screen introduction of Colonel Alistair Lethbridge-Stewart as played by Nicholas Courtney. (I say on-screen because Colonel Alistair Lethbridge-Stewart met The Doctor off-screen in episode two. Off-screen because Troughton was on holiday that week). We see the Colonel's boot in episode 2. I don't know who's foot is in the boot but not Nick Courtney.
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RWels
Member
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Post by RWels on Apr 9, 2020 14:23:52 GMT
Well, people, it stands to reason that this is true. Pure logic. Episodes are returned either from stations (Nigeria may be the last outlier unless Zimbabwe, Ethiopia, or Iran cough up); or from private collectors. And every episode returned from the latter was by definition before that "in private hands" - until it was returned. (Although the last returns were from someone who hadn't realised they were missing.)
The only real surprise is the number. It's slightly higher than I would have expected. Then again, someone who was able to get accomplices in Nigeria may have been able to pull that stunt before.
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Apr 9, 2020 15:52:21 GMT
I will never understand why anyone would wish to withhold the happiness which the return of a ME would bring to thousands upon thousands of people.
And, for what?
Richard
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Post by mattg on Apr 9, 2020 18:18:34 GMT
I will never understand why anyone would wish to withhold the happiness which the return of a ME would bring to thousands upon thousands of people. And, for what? Richard Yes, it's a curious and infuriating paradox, albeit one still based on mere supposition and unsubstantiated rumour in this particular instance. After all, as anyone in possession of such coveted material could hardly broadcast the fact (obviously for fear of fan pressure to hand it over) it must be a very lonely sense of pride in owning a (culturally) valuable piece of television! Ironically though perhaps an explanation for the above behaviour can partly be found in the 1979 'Who classic 'The City of Death'. Indeed, 'Duggan' speculates that wealthy art collectors would pay millions to secretly possess the famed Mona Lisa, just for the private satisfaction of owning something so iconic! Regardless, as I've cynically proffered on this matter before, if ageing collectors won't (allegedly) return missing 'Who to the BBC then the only viable recourse is to outlive them. It's ultimately a waiting game at this point - waiting for them to die*. Callous? Perhaps but also, in the circumstances, practical as well. *whilst shrewdly maintaining very good relations with their spouses of course! After all, irreplaceable private film collections have been known to be unceremoniously dumped/destroyed by the merry widow proceeding her husband's demise....
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Apr 9, 2020 18:28:43 GMT
I will never understand why anyone would wish to withhold the happiness which the return of a ME would bring to thousands upon thousands of people. And, for what? Richard Yes, it's a curious and infuriating paradox, albeit one still based on mere supposition and unsubstantiated rumour in this particular instance. After all, as anyone in possession of such coveted material could hardly broadcast the fact (obviously for fear of fan pressure to hand it over) it must be a very lonely sense of pride in owning a (culturally) valuable piece of television! Ironically though perhaps an explanation for the above behaviour can partly be found in the 1979 'Who classic 'The City of Death'. Indeed, 'Duggan' speculates that wealthy art collectors would pay millions to secretly possess the famed Mona Lisa, just for the private satisfaction of owning something so iconic! Regardless, as I've cynically proffered on this matter before, if ageing collectors won't (allegedly) return missing 'Who to the BBC then the only viable recourse is to outlive them. It's ultimately a waiting game at this point - waiting for them to die*. Callous? Perhaps but also, in the circumstances, practical as well. *whilst shrewdly maintaining very good relations with their spouses of course! After all, irreplaceable private film collections have been known to be unceremoniously dumped/destroyed by the merry widow proceeding her husband's demise.... I suppose what puzzles me is why anyone would want to be a part of humanity that makes things worse, rather than being a part of humanity that makes things better. Even if you can only make a small difference, you might just inspire someone who can make a big difference, so why not be one of the good guys?
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Apr 9, 2020 18:28:52 GMT
I will never understand why anyone would wish to withhold the happiness which the return of a ME would bring to thousands upon thousands of people. And, for what? Richard Yes, it's a curious and infuriating paradox, albeit one still based on mere supposition and unsubstantiated rumour in this particular instance. After all, as anyone in possession of such coveted material could hardly broadcast the fact (obviously for fear of fan pressure to hand it over) it must be a very lonely sense of pride in owning a (culturally) valuable piece of television! Ironically though perhaps an explanation for the above behaviour can partly be found in the 1979 'Who classic 'The City of Death'. Indeed, 'Duggan' speculates that wealthy art collectors would pay millions to secretly possess the famed Mona Lisa, just for the private satisfaction of owning something so iconic! Regardless, as I've cynically proffered on this matter before, if ageing collectors won't (allegedly) return missing 'Who to the BBC then the only viable recourse is to outlive them. It's ultimately a waiting game at this point - waiting for them to die*. Callous? Perhaps but also, in the circumstances, practical as well. *whilst shrewdly maintaining very good relations with their spouses of course! After all, irreplaceable private film collections have been known to be unceremoniously dumped/destroyed by the merry widow proceeding her husband's demise.... Oh dear, I can just imagine a film can appearing in front of a stately home and being discussed on a sunny afternoon on Antiques Roadshow...
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Post by mattg on Apr 9, 2020 19:15:32 GMT
Yes, it's a curious and infuriating paradox, albeit one still based on mere supposition and unsubstantiated rumour in this particular instance. After all, as anyone in possession of such coveted material could hardly broadcast the fact (obviously for fear of fan pressure to hand it over) it must be a very lonely sense of pride in owning a (culturally) valuable piece of television! Ironically though perhaps an explanation for the above behaviour can partly be found in the 1979 'Who classic 'The City of Death'. Indeed, 'Duggan' speculates that wealthy art collectors would pay millions to secretly possess the famed Mona Lisa, just for the private satisfaction of owning something so iconic! Regardless, as I've cynically proffered on this matter before, if ageing collectors won't (allegedly) return missing 'Who to the BBC then the only viable recourse is to outlive them. It's ultimately a waiting game at this point - waiting for them to die*. Callous? Perhaps but also, in the circumstances, practical as well. *whilst shrewdly maintaining very good relations with their spouses of course! After all, irreplaceable private film collections have been known to be unceremoniously dumped/destroyed by the merry widow proceeding her husband's demise.... I suppose what puzzles me is why anyone would want to be a part of humanity that makes things worse, rather than being a part of humanity that makes things better. Even if you can only make a small difference, you might just inspire someone who can make a big difference, so why not be one of the good guys? Well, they'll have their reasons of course and, as it is their rightful property, they can do what they want with it. Even if such obstinance only serves to fuel fans' frustrations. On a related note, one explanation/excuse I don't buy for a minute was made on another thread here recently. I'm too lazy to check now but, from memory, it was claimed that a film collector reputedly in possession of a missing episode was merely indifferent to the prospect of returning it to the Beeb. Not only that but he also didn't want the fuss, didn't really care, wasn't a fan of Doctor Who anyway, blah, blah, blah. Utter cobblers. Needless to say that it would be ridiculously easy to arrange for such material to be handed over to the BBC, perhaps with the likes of Paul or Phil Morris acting as mediator. Discretion would be guaranteed too if the preservation of anonymity was desired. No, if there's any truth to that particular account then I'll bet this collector's alleged indifference would instantly vanish were a fan to offer him considerable fiscal stimulus to part with said material!
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Post by John Wall on Apr 9, 2020 20:14:11 GMT
I will never understand why anyone would wish to withhold the happiness which the return of a ME would bring to thousands upon thousands of people. And, for what? Richard Why steal the Mona Lisa en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Death ?
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Apr 9, 2020 20:24:27 GMT
I don't really buy into the money argument, TBH (no pun intended). If they ever had a monetary value they're losing value all the time. Those of us who care are slowly getting old, bored or dying. With so much new Who now the interest in old Who is diluting away. And I never knew how an ME could be sold as something unique anyway; like in City of Death, the seller could be selling 5 copies at the same time and not telling any of his buyers, and could the buyers really sue if they found out?
Anyway, I'm glad that there are people working in our Health Service and essential services who are prepared to go well beyond the call of money to keep us all alive and healthy in these times. Perhaps some ME owner might consider how some underpaid doctor or nurse may well end up risking his or her life in order to keep them or their friends or family alive.
Sorry about the rant
Richard
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Post by Dan Kolb on Apr 9, 2020 21:30:23 GMT
I don't really buy into the money argument, TBH (no pun intended). If they ever had a monetary value they're losing value all the time. Those of us who care are slowly getting old, bored or dying. With so much new Who now the interest in old Who is diluting away. And I never knew how an ME could be sold as something unique anyway; like in City of Death, the seller could be selling 5 copies at the same time and not telling any of his buyers, and could the buyers really sue if they found out? Anyway, I'm glad that there are people working in our Health Service and essential services who are prepared to go well beyond the call of money to keep us all alive and healthy in these times. Perhaps some ME owner might consider how some underpaid doctor or nurse may well end up risking his or her life in order to keep them or their friends or family alive. Sorry about the rant Richard I agree that the younger generation doesn't generally care much for old tv, especially b&w. Wouldn't it be ironic though if "Coronas Of The Sun" was returned during this pandemic?
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Apr 9, 2020 22:35:57 GMT
I don't really buy into the money argument, TBH (no pun intended). If they ever had a monetary value they're losing value all the time. Those of us who care are slowly getting old, bored or dying. With so much new Who now the interest in old Who is diluting away. And I never knew how an ME could be sold as something unique anyway; like in City of Death, the seller could be selling 5 copies at the same time and not telling any of his buyers, and could the buyers really sue if they found out? Anyway, I'm glad that there are people working in our Health Service and essential services who are prepared to go well beyond the call of money to keep us all alive and healthy in these times. Perhaps some ME owner might consider how some underpaid doctor or nurse may well end up risking his or her life in order to keep them or their friends or family alive. Sorry about the rant Richard I know what you mean Richard and I understand how the current situation should make collectors make some kind of humanitarian gesture and hand over the episodes,just like they did when the Twin Towers were destroyed in 9/11 or when they gave a missing episode due to the terrible sadness they felt when David Bowie died or the avalanche of missing episodes that were handed over when Christopher Barry passed away...nothing will make them feel guilty enough to hand them over.Why should it?Real life doesn't make me make any grand gesture so why should they?
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Post by Luke Sherlaw on Apr 9, 2020 22:38:32 GMT
I can't help but think that if I was to want to do something selfish and egocentric with missing episodes....it'd still involve handing them in! I'd rather bask in the fame/appraisal of the fans and gloat about being in an exclusive club of people who'd handed back a part of our history than be the only person in the world who can watch something that was meant to be enjoyed by the masses. I don't know about anyone else but to me, people like Terry Burnett are badasses. They had something unique but wanted to spread happiness to thousands of people without so much as a thought. That to me is badass, not "I've got Evil of the daleks part 5 and you haven't!" Very good, Dan In all seriousness though, DMP has some fantastic episode names. I've always loved "The nightmare begins", "Day of Armageddon", "Coronas of the sun" and "The destruction of time".
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Apr 9, 2020 23:16:13 GMT
I don't really buy into the money argument, TBH (no pun intended). If they ever had a monetary value they're losing value all the time. Those of us who care are slowly getting old, bored or dying. With so much new Who now the interest in old Who is diluting away. And I never knew how an ME could be sold as something unique anyway; like in City of Death, the seller could be selling 5 copies at the same time and not telling any of his buyers, and could the buyers really sue if they found out? Anyway, I'm glad that there are people working in our Health Service and essential services who are prepared to go well beyond the call of money to keep us all alive and healthy in these times. Perhaps some ME owner might consider how some underpaid doctor or nurse may well end up risking his or her life in order to keep them or their friends or family alive. Sorry about the rant Richard I know what you mean Richard and I understand how the current situation should make collectors make some kind of humanitarian gesture and hand over the episodes,just like they did when the Twin Towers were destroyed in 9/11 or when they gave a missing episode due to the terrible sadness they felt when David Bowie died or the avalanche of missing episodes that were handed over when Christopher Barry passed away...nothing will make them feel guilty enough to hand them over.Why should it?Real life doesn't make me make any grand gesture so why should they? But real life definitely is making people make grand gestures. Nurses and doctors would be perfectly entitled to refuse to go into work unless provided with proper protective equipment and yet they’re doing so anyway at great risk to themselves. And some of them have died as a result. That’s a massive gesture, far greater than returning an ME. And what about the grand gestures of the new york fire service during 9/11? People make grand gestures like this all the time. Richard
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Apr 10, 2020 7:01:00 GMT
I know what you mean Richard and I understand how the current situation should make collectors make some kind of humanitarian gesture and hand over the episodes,just like they did when the Twin Towers were destroyed in 9/11 or when they gave a missing episode due to the terrible sadness they felt when David Bowie died or the avalanche of missing episodes that were handed over when Christopher Barry passed away...nothing will make them feel guilty enough to hand them over.Why should it?Real life doesn't make me make any grand gesture so why should they? But real life definitely is making people make grand gestures. Nurses and doctors would be perfectly entitled to refuse to go into work unless provided with proper protective equipment and yet they’re doing so anyway at great risk to themselves. And some of them have died as a result. That’s a massive gesture, far greater than returning an ME. And what about the grand gestures of the new york fire service during 9/11? People make grand gestures like this all the time. Richard Unfortunately, grand gestures are only made in relation to the crisis itself, not some left-field subject such as missing episodes or someone confessing he knows the whereabouts of the Holy Grail just because humanity is suffering.These are arbitrary subjects,with nothing to do with world events.Sorry Richard.
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Post by stevehoare61 on Apr 10, 2020 7:27:41 GMT
In a previous post I tried to explain how, as a Vinyl Collector, the mind of a Collector works, ...you are all Collectors, you are all desperate to see these episodes and get them into your DVD collections. So albeit, a very mild case of obsession,on the other hand, these collectors may have been collecting for 40 or 50,maybe even more years and collecting is an Obsession. There have been numerous times when the BBC, and the programme itself have put out pleas for any returns , on TV, in the media and online. As a collector I cant believe that Collectors don't know what they have or they wouldn't have got them in the first place. Plus they have must have had some kind of discussion about them, for Phil to know what he claims, so there cant be any excuse for these people NOT to know what they have. I suspect, the only way to prise these episodes from the Collectors is by Monetary means. All the guff about rights, belonging to the BBC etc is totally irrelevant. It is not of interest. Money may possibly be the key...Maybe a crowd funding exercise or a madly rich uber fan might save the day because I so believe some of these episodes will not appear otherwise.
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