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Post by John Wall on Jul 10, 2019 14:12:32 GMT
I hope that this is the right place to post this, if not I apologise.
A small museum I volunteer at has a number - maybe about hundred, and there could be more in the future - of VHS cassettes.
There are two questions.
The first is what is the optimum/best format to convert the material to.
The second is what is the easiest/best way to do the conversion, is there a recommended piece of kit?
Thanks 👍
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RWels
Member
Posts: 2,862
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Post by RWels on Jul 10, 2019 15:19:57 GMT
Let's suppose that the contents are reasonably important but not the crown jewels so to speak.
There is not really any point in going beyond DVD or SD quality; above that, enhancing is no use because you can't put back what is not there.
A VHS-and-DVD recording deck might not be the worst solution. These are now affordable and won't require much know-how. With a basic manual it can be used again whenever more tapes turn up. The result is a video-DVD which means it's in the mpg2-format, most likely with a 720x576 resolution. This is probably good enough.
Connecting a VCR to the computer (via a USB device) isn't expensive either, but it simply slightly more complicated to record the input, so it might not be the average volunteer's forte. (OK, maybe I am generalising here.)
Things to keep in mind: 1. Don't throw the VHS tapes away just yet, in case anything needs to be re-done. 2. Don't just keep the DVDR - these might become unplayable; when, that depends on the brand. Although I suspect that resources are limited, a second person should export the recording to a hard disc. Perhaps even with DVD Shrink (uncompressed copy) just in order to quickly detect any immediate problems. 3. Sometimes tape 1 gets razor sharp results on deck A and tape 2 on deck B. Switch them, and they go all fuzzy - I had that a few weeks ago and it was the opposite of what I expected. So if results are disappointing, I simply mean if the tapes look bad when you play them, then it's definitely worth just trying how they look on another VCR.
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Post by John Wall on Jul 10, 2019 15:34:58 GMT
Let's suppose that the contents are reasonably important but not the crown jewels so to speak. There is not really any point in going beyond DVD or SD quality; above that, enhancing is no use because you can't put back what is not there. A VHS-and-DVD recording deck might not be the worst solution. These are now affordable and won't require much know-how. With a basic manual it can be used again whenever more tapes turn up. The result is a video-DVD which means it's in the mpg2-format, most likely with a 720x576 resolution. This is probably good enough. Connecting a VCR to the computer (via a USB device) isn't expensive either, but it simply slightly more complicated to record the input, so it might not be the average volunteer's forte. (OK, maybe I am generalising here.) Things to keep in mind: 1. Don't throw the VHS tapes away just yet, in case anything needs to be re-done. 2. Don't just keep the DVDR - these might become unplayable; when, that depends on the brand. Although I suspect that resources are limited, a second person should export the recording to a hard disc. Perhaps even with DVD Shrink (uncompressed copy) just in order to quickly detect any immediate problems. 3. Sometimes tape 1 gets razor sharp results on deck A and tape 2 on deck B. Switch them, and they go all fuzzy - I had that a few weeks ago and it was the opposite of what I expected. So if results are disappointing, I simply mean if the tapes look bad when you play them, then it's definitely worth just trying how they look on another VCR. I knew this would be a great place to seek advice 👍 Is there any equipment that’s either good/reasonably priced or, equally, should be avoided?
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Post by markboulton on Jul 10, 2019 21:40:33 GMT
I use either a JVC HR-S8600 or HR-S9600 (a bit like RWels says sometimes one deck just doesn't like a certain tape for some reason when the other one does). I then capture that to a Canopus ADVC-100 which then outputs to a Firewire port. The software I use is Cyberlink PowerProducer. Those VCRs have TBC (Timebase Correctors) and Digital Noise Reduction which enormously reduce the amount of grain or noise that would fox the compression in MPEG2 format and therefore gives much better results than a DVD Recorder. I actually capture to much higher quality AVI files but they take a lot of space and is probably too much for most people.
As for a non-TBC VCR that can usually be found for very reasonable prices, I would recommend a Sony SLV-E700. The best VHS VCR without TBC in my experience, even including industrial models.
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Post by John Wall on Jul 10, 2019 21:58:57 GMT
I use either a JVC HR-S8600 or HR-S9600 (a bit like RWels says sometimes one deck just doesn't like a certain tape for some reason when the other one does). I then capture that to a Canopus ADVC-100 which then outputs to a Firewire port. The software I use is Cyberlink PowerProducer. Those VCRs have TBC (Timebase Correctors) and Digital Noise Reduction which enormously reduce the amount of grain or noise that would fox the compression in MPEG2 format and therefore gives much better results than a DVD Recorder. I actually capture to much higher quality AVI files but they take a lot of space and is probably too much for most people. As for a non-TBC VCR that can usually be found for very reasonable prices, I would recommend a Sony SLV-E700. The best VHS VCR without TBC in my experience, even including industrial models. The standard of knowledge/advice here is first rate 👍 Any idea of a rough/guide price for the appropriate equipment please?
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Post by tom rogers on Jul 11, 2019 0:55:48 GMT
Let's suppose that the contents are reasonably important but not the crown jewels so to speak. There is not really any point in going beyond DVD or SD quality; above that, enhancing is no use because you can't put back what is not there. A VHS-and-DVD recording deck might not be the worst solution. These are now affordable and won't require much know-how. With a basic manual it can be used again whenever more tapes turn up. The result is a video-DVD which means it's in the mpg2-format, most likely with a 720x576 resolution. This is probably good enough. Connecting a VCR to the computer (via a USB device) isn't expensive either, but it simply slightly more complicated to record the input, so it might not be the average volunteer's forte. (OK, maybe I am generalising here.) Things to keep in mind: 1. Don't throw the VHS tapes away just yet, in case anything needs to be re-done. 2. Don't just keep the DVDR - these might become unplayable; when, that depends on the brand. Although I suspect that resources are limited, a second person should export the recording to a hard disc. Perhaps even with DVD Shrink (uncompressed copy) just in order to quickly detect any immediate problems. 3. Sometimes tape 1 gets razor sharp results on deck A and tape 2 on deck B. Switch them, and they go all fuzzy - I had that a few weeks ago and it was the opposite of what I expected. So if results are disappointing, I simply mean if the tapes look bad when you play them, then it's definitely worth just trying how they look on another VCR. This is all excellent advice! The three "things to keep in mind" are especially important. DVD Shrink is an excellent choice to create ISO files that can be burned to disc and/or saved by themselves. As for USB devices, I can recommend the Elgato Video Capture dongle. It works on macs and pcs, is easy to install and use, and it permits you to choose between various output file formats, as well as various resolution (SD, HD, etc.). I use one regularly to convert vhs tapes to MP4/M4V and other type files. The results are excellent, both audio and video. The cost is about $80US. The only caveat is that your computer must be fast enough to run it or you will have audio/video sync issues. One of my old machines can't handle it, but my newer machine (2015) has no problems. It converts in real-time (a 2-hr tape will take 2 hours to convert).
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Post by markboulton on Jul 11, 2019 7:43:02 GMT
To answer about prices in my case:
Sony SLV-E700... Usually go for about £40-50 you know where Canopus ADVC-100... Usually around £80-120 PowerProducer... not sure where to actually buy it these days, but other software as bundled with capture devices may work just as well although most won't do AVI... PM me for more details if desired
Firewire PCI adapter... around £15 M
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Post by richardwoods on Jul 11, 2019 8:52:49 GMT
Excellent advice all round. My best results have been obtained by using a top end Sharp 6 head VHS connected to a Sony Hard Disc / DVD recorder. What I did on the important recordings was record the VHS to hard disc at the highest possible quality & then copy them to multiple copies of the best quality DVD, (to reduce the risk of losing recordings to de-lamination, etc), at the highest quality transfer that the program would allow & would still fit on the individual disc, for example the highest quality setting would allow a 30 min program to be recorded to DVD & the lowest quality setting, (which in reality would never be used), would allow 6hrs per DVD. In reality the vast majority of material transferred this way was on the top three quality settings giving DVDs of 30, 60 & 100 minutes recording length. Hope this helps!
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Post by darrenlee on Jul 11, 2019 8:59:28 GMT
The high-end JVCs with TBCs (as Mark has) are hard to find and typically cost hundreds of pounds when seen. Whether you want something like that really depends on how serious your project is and, also, the condition of your tapes; if they are in excellent condition you can get very good results from a really cheap VCR if necessary. If you record uncompressed (or losslessly compressed) to a computer it may be possible to use software ('filters') to improve the video radically post-recording (including reducing the noise) - but this may need a bit of a learning-curve and be time-consuming. Here is a guide to high-end VCRs which may incidentally have some useful information, but be aware some of the contributors are VCR supernerds who take an extremely dim view of machines without TBCs. forum.videohelp.com/threads/286055-VCR-buying-guide-%28S-VHS-D-VHS-Professional%29If you record directly to DVD, bear in mind that, among other things, you risk getting horrible compression artefacts in fast-moving scenes, especially if you have a recorder that uses a constant bit-rate, so set the recording time per disc as short as possible. This may give you something to think about if you are trying to record a long video. But it's potentially quick and easy, and is therefore surely the way most people (who are not too bothered about quality and just want to dump their tapes) have copied their tapes. Not that this information is the least use to anyone, but I use a Dazzle DVC90 USB capture device (£3 from a charity shop) on an old Windows XP computer (device drivers unavailable for later operating systems...) with VirtualDub (free). It works perfectly as far as I can tell!
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Post by garygraham on Jul 11, 2019 19:50:36 GMT
Good advice above. I use Panasonic DVD recorders which I bought secondhand on ebay and Panasonic VCRs. The Panasonic DVD recorder has some kind of time base corrector/stabiliser in it and seems to do a little bit of subtle clean up. It records MPEG2 and the highest quality gives one hour per disc. The files on the DVD have the suffix .vro. I generally record onto DVDRW (rewritable discs), then put the disc in the pc and copy the file to the drive. VOBs are MPEG2 but in a form that suits DVD recorders. I use free software called DVDVod2MPG to process the files. This gives standard MPEG2 and fixes some of the weird aspects of VOB. Nevertheless it is best to record continuously or use pause on the DVD recorder where needed and only press the stop button at the very end before you take out the DVD and transfer it. With good quality VHS recordings and the top quality setting on the DVD recorder I find the recordings need no filtering. In most situations I would say you get 95%+ of the original quality from the VHS tape. The Pansonic DVD recorders record at 704x576 which is a standard DVD size but with 8 pixels of blanking removed from each side. For the most important recordings I use the free Virtualdub software with a USB device. I run the signal straight through the DVD recorder into the USB device as I believe the DVD recorder processes it and gives a slightly better result. Weirdly like Darren I use an old Windows XP laptop (from 2003). I record as an AVI file. AVI is just a container and can hold all types of video and audio which are compressed using "codecs" or can be left uncompressed. For maximum quality the picture codec I use is HuffyUV (free). It is effectively uncompressed and reduces the file size a bit but the files are big (25Gb for 50 minutes). Another useful codec is MJPEG and the compression can be varied (with 95% picture compression the file size is 208Mb per minute). Audio is always uncompressed in my case. AVI is much better if you plan to do editing and that can be done in VirtualDub. MPEG2 editors are available such as Womble MPEG Video Wizard which is pay-for. Most people would notice no picture difference between an MPEG2 recording and a gigantic HuffyUV AVI file of the same VHS! The DVD recorder route is much easier for a beginner. Blu ray discs (BD-R) are good for storage. 25GB of space for as little as 35p. Drives to write them are £60-£100. Here's one I made earlier (MPEG2)... Attachment Deleted
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Post by garygraham on Jul 11, 2019 20:00:44 GMT
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Post by lee jones on Jul 12, 2019 23:28:49 GMT
One thing which is really useful when capturing video is having some sort of TBC. But .... where abouts can you find a TBC these days ? I must admit I'm looking for a TBC but can either find nothing at all or if I do find something it is on ebay going for £silly money. Haven't seen a reasonably priced TBC for a while now.
As for a capture device I use a USB "Ezcap" device which just looks like a small usb stick with some cables coming from it. Mine does a pretty good job all things considered and before deciding on that ezap device I tried several others -- firewire based devices, PCI devices; I almost pressed into service my ancient Matrox G400TV and breakout box into action(!). But be warned about the ezcap sticks - there are several different versions of this device - there's one "good" type and lots of not-very-good ones out there.
ljones
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Post by Dan S on Jul 12, 2019 23:50:30 GMT
I struggled with a capture card... really struggled... spent ages trying to find a decent codec... ended up getting many dropped frames and a sub-youtube quality video before giving up. Then later got a vcr/dvd combo and the results were excellent and it couldn't be easier to use.
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Post by richardwoods on Jul 13, 2019 10:53:27 GMT
Another thought that just popped into my mind. When I was originally looking to transfer my VHS to DVD the reason I didn’t go with a combined unit was, at the time I couldn’t get one with a good enough VHS unit fitted. I bought & returned a couple as the results were grainy & poor with my tapes. If you do go down this route, do some research on the unit first & as a bare minimum make sure the VHS carries the HQ logo. The same obviously applies to separates, as a rule of thumb with VHS the more heads the better & of moderately priced players I’ve found Sharp 6 head sets very good.
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Post by garygraham on Jul 13, 2019 11:58:16 GMT
The last two USB devices I have used seem to stabilise the picture in a similar way to a time base corrector.
I first saw this sort of thing built into the affordable vision mixers that Panasonic produced 25-30 years ago and also some titling units around that time. At that time we were astonished to be able to lay titles over a signal that was just blank VHS tape and it was all perfectly stable. The Panasonic DVD recorders seem to have it too.
Perhaps it doesn't give the full benefit of a TBC but is a world away from the sort of basic connection we had in the VHS tape-to-tape days.
If buying a VCR I would again recommend Panasonic. I think any Panasonic VCR will give good results. I have compared a Panasonic SVHS VCR with a JVC one that I bought and the Panasonic is better.
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