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Post by richardwoods on Mar 30, 2019 9:57:21 GMT
Yeah, pretty much me as well. Just to be clear, although it would be nice to be part of the younger generation getting excited about the possibility of recoveries, sadly I’m old enough to remember watching the serials from The Savages onwards. Ever since it became clear what was missing from the archives I’ve been interested in / excited by what still existed elsewhere and could potentially be recovered. As far as PM is concerned, he had made hints at various points and denials that weren’t 100% denials so it’s anyones guess to be honest. Time will tell, I just prefer to be glass half full about it.
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Post by John Wall on Mar 30, 2019 16:32:13 GMT
Alternatively you could go with the obvious answer that he hasn’t found anything to hold back.
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Post by scotttelfer on Mar 30, 2019 17:53:08 GMT
Alternatively you could go with the obvious answer that he hasn’t found anything to hold back. Except he has, he's openly stated he has more material and has even teased what his next big announcement will be (something to do with Liverpool). He may not have any more Doctor Who, but he's certainly found some stuff over the years. Be cautious, not pesimistic.
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Post by richardwoods on Mar 30, 2019 17:53:42 GMT
Alternatively you could go with the obvious answer that he hasn’t found anything to hold back. Indeed you could, to be honest no one knows apart from PM & anyone he has chosen to discuss it with, so time will tell.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Mar 31, 2019 0:00:00 GMT
... Except he has, he's openly stated he has more material and has even teased what his next big announcement ... He may not have any more Doctor Who ... Well that's as clear as mud. The "statements" have been pretty vague and open-ended. However, one specific choice for animation? The Holy Terror. I expect Phil has hinted he might find that somewhere too ...
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Post by John Wall on Mar 31, 2019 0:27:26 GMT
I’m just realistic.
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Post by lousingh on Mar 31, 2019 3:06:48 GMT
Yeah, pretty much me as well. Just to be clear, although it would be nice to be part of the younger generation getting excited about the possibility of recoveries, sadly I’m old enough to remember watching the serials from The Savages onwards... Just like many young techies envy me because I can remember watching the moon landing on TV (and the original of that is missing from the NASA archives), I wish I could remember watching those stories. (The effect of The Beatles on pop music is up there too.) That is why I love the recons and the animations.
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Post by Robert Lia on Mar 31, 2019 6:05:14 GMT
I remember watching the Apollo 11 moon landing on TV. They preempted Dark Shadows that day in parts of the United States, that episode does exist though
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Post by lescox on Mar 31, 2019 12:36:55 GMT
Thank you all for your comments so far. I agree with all that's been said. Now I would like to try and get everyone to focus upon the hear and now-where do we stand at present and where are things actually going, rather than speculation. Let's assume that missing material is lost and that all that's in the archives is all we have (we know that's not true, but let's assume for the moment that this is the case). Where are things going on the missing episode front at this very moment? Well, within the last 6 months, 3 different productions have come to light - The Macra Terror, The Wheel In Space mini episode and the University of Lancaster's re-staging of The Mission To The Unknown (endorsed by the BBC and the Nation estate, filmed in one week). That's phenomenal. That clearly shows official endorsement for reconstructions. So where does that lead us. I personally believe that The Wheel In Space will get the full treatment. Then what? Mini Episodes could be created to test the water for further projects. What form of reconstruction - live action, animation, mixed media? By the look of things, all of them. So, back to The Abominable Snowmen. Re-creating it, how and why? Simple answer, cost, speed and simplicity. Take a camera to Snowdonia and re-shoot all the outside locations, with or without any actors/stand-ins. Create the Yeti in 3D software - Blender is free and would easily handle such a subject. The Spheres are even more simple - no work at all. The monastery scenes could be achieved photographically with simple 3D trickery, animation or simple physical sets. Depending upon what process is adopted, a large chunk of the serial could be created at a basic level, by skilled hands in a matter of a month or so, at minimal cost and time. What of the characters? Live action can be lifted from existing material and manipulated/ blended into new scenes. Or they could be animated, or both. The simple stuff could be created in bulk and at speed, so that gives more time to spend on the more awkward areas of production. The end result could be achieved in a relatively short space of time, at good quality - and got out into the public domain rapidly. That would be the aim. If successful, more ambitious projects could be tackled - and the more that's out there, the less that has to be considered for future treatment. That's my thoughts on the subject, at the moment. I'm sure that people will pick holes in it, but that's the point of positive debate. We have to be practical about things at times and the fact is that if any missing material turns up now, then that's a bonus - but I think we will have a long wait yet, so let's work with what we have.
Agree, disagree? Fire away!
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Post by scotttelfer on Mar 31, 2019 14:54:00 GMT
Thank you all for your comments so far. I agree with all that's been said. Now I would like to try and get everyone to focus upon the hear and now-where do we stand at present and where are things actually going, rather than speculation. Let's assume that missing material is lost and that all that's in the archives is all we have (we know that's not true, but let's assume for the moment that this is the case). Where are things going on the missing episode front at this very moment? Well, within the last 6 months, 3 different productions have come to light - The Macra Terror, The Wheel In Space mini episode and the University of Lancaster's re-staging of The Mission To The Unknown (endorsed by the BBC and the Nation estate, filmed in one week). That's phenomenal. That clearly shows official endorsement for reconstructions. So where does that lead us. I personally believe that The Wheel In Space will get the full treatment. Then what? Mini Episodes could be created to test the water for further projects. What form of reconstruction - live action, animation, mixed media? By the look of things, all of them. So, back to The Abominable Snowmen. Re-creating it, how and why? Simple answer, cost, speed and simplicity. Take a camera to Snowdonia and re-shoot all the outside locations, with or without any actors/stand-ins. Create the Yeti in 3D software - Blender is free and would easily handle such a subject. The Spheres are even more simple - no work at all. The monastery scenes could be achieved photographically with simple 3D trickery, animation or simple physical sets. Depending upon what process is adopted, a large chunk of the serial could be created at a basic level, by skilled hands in a matter of a month or so, at minimal cost and time. What of the characters? Live action can be lifted from existing material and manipulated/ blended into new scenes. Or they could be animated, or both. The simple stuff could be created in bulk and at speed, so that gives more time to spend on the more awkward areas of production. The end result could be achieved in a relatively short space of time, at good quality - and got out into the public domain rapidly. That would be the aim. If successful, more ambitious projects could be tackled - and the more that's out there, the less that has to be considered for future treatment. That's my thoughts on the subject, at the moment. I'm sure that people will pick holes in it, but that's the point of positive debate. We have to be practical about things at times and the fact is that if any missing material turns up now, then that's a bonus - but I think we will have a long wait yet, so let's work with what we have.
Agree, disagree? Fire away!
There are definitely a few holes in there. The BBC are never going to allow it to go into public domain or approve of the public producing it if that's what you are suggesting (see the Mission to the Unknown animation). Additionally you still have to create the character assets which is a huge investment, sure the Yeti may be "easy" (still a lot of work to get it to a professional level) but you've still got the rest of the cast which will take a lot of time. It's absolutely not something you can rattle through in a couple of months.
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Post by richardwoods on Apr 1, 2019 17:41:22 GMT
Thank you all for your comments so far. I agree with all that's been said. Now I would like to try and get everyone to focus upon the hear and now-where do we stand at present and where are things actually going, rather than speculation. Let's assume that missing material is lost and that all that's in the archives is all we have (we know that's not true, but let's assume for the moment that this is the case). Where are things going on the missing episode front at this very moment? Well, within the last 6 months, 3 different productions have come to light - The Macra Terror, The Wheel In Space mini episode and the University of Lancaster's re-staging of The Mission To The Unknown (endorsed by the BBC and the Nation estate, filmed in one week). That's phenomenal. That clearly shows official endorsement for reconstructions. So where does that lead us. I personally believe that The Wheel In Space will get the full treatment. Then what? Mini Episodes could be created to test the water for further projects. What form of reconstruction - live action, animation, mixed media? By the look of things, all of them. So, back to The Abominable Snowmen. Re-creating it, how and why? Simple answer, cost, speed and simplicity. Take a camera to Snowdonia and re-shoot all the outside locations, with or without any actors/stand-ins. Create the Yeti in 3D software - Blender is free and would easily handle such a subject. The Spheres are even more simple - no work at all. The monastery scenes could be achieved photographically with simple 3D trickery, animation or simple physical sets. Depending upon what process is adopted, a large chunk of the serial could be created at a basic level, by skilled hands in a matter of a month or so, at minimal cost and time. What of the characters? Live action can be lifted from existing material and manipulated/ blended into new scenes. Or they could be animated, or both. The simple stuff could be created in bulk and at speed, so that gives more time to spend on the more awkward areas of production. The end result could be achieved in a relatively short space of time, at good quality - and got out into the public domain rapidly. That would be the aim. If successful, more ambitious projects could be tackled - and the more that's out there, the less that has to be considered for future treatment. That's my thoughts on the subject, at the moment. I'm sure that people will pick holes in it, but that's the point of positive debate. We have to be practical about things at times and the fact is that if any missing material turns up now, then that's a bonus - but I think we will have a long wait yet, so let's work with what we have.
Agree, disagree? Fire away!
😂😂😂😂 sorry, just you were so keen to avoid us going off topic & look what happened, a bit like herding cats
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Post by lescox on Apr 1, 2019 17:50:07 GMT
Maybe I should have been a bit clearer upon intent. This was just presented as a possible scenario, with practical limitations. So take it that the BBC had endorsed someone to do a feasibility test to see if it was viable. The Mission To The Unknown was live filmed and, i believe totally funded by the University. I am under the impression that they are hoping to get it released at some point. Assets-there are now a fair few officially produced assets now around. As for rattling out something quickly, well that's how TV works. I worked for the BBC a few years back, involved in production training - I'm not at liberty to discuss that in public and won't. But, when it comes to filming, it is time, speed and money, simple as. The quicker you work, the more extra shots you can take in the remaining allocated time. You could shoot all the location shots in a day, or even an afternoon. You then edit it to the soundtrack, add placeholders in to represent the characters and that would give you a very quick test sequence that would show whether you could achieve something or not. You would be looking for quick results. You would be working with approval from the BBC. I certainly was not suggesting this to be the efforts of an amateur. The aim was to present a practical scenario. If the BBC provided all the documentation for the serial, there would quite possibly be all the camera scripts, floor plans etc. It's not as if something was being created from scratch, so there is a massive head start right from the beginning. I hope that makes my point of view a little clearer. All the points you raised, though are of course totally valid.
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Post by lescox on Apr 1, 2019 18:02:15 GMT
Thank you all for your comments so far. I agree with all that's been said. Now I would like to try and get everyone to focus upon the hear and now-where do we stand at present and where are things actually going, rather than speculation. Let's assume that missing material is lost and that all that's in the archives is all we have (we know that's not true, but let's assume for the moment that this is the case). Where are things going on the missing episode front at this very moment? Well, within the last 6 months, 3 different productions have come to light - The Macra Terror, The Wheel In Space mini episode and the University of Lancaster's re-staging of The Mission To The Unknown (endorsed by the BBC and the Nation estate, filmed in one week). That's phenomenal. That clearly shows official endorsement for reconstructions. So where does that lead us. I personally believe that The Wheel In Space will get the full treatment. Then what? Mini Episodes could be created to test the water for further projects. What form of reconstruction - live action, animation, mixed media? By the look of things, all of them. So, back to The Abominable Snowmen. Re-creating it, how and why? Simple answer, cost, speed and simplicity. Take a camera to Snowdonia and re-shoot all the outside locations, with or without any actors/stand-ins. Create the Yeti in 3D software - Blender is free and would easily handle such a subject. The Spheres are even more simple - no work at all. The monastery scenes could be achieved photographically with simple 3D trickery, animation or simple physical sets. Depending upon what process is adopted, a large chunk of the serial could be created at a basic level, by skilled hands in a matter of a month or so, at minimal cost and time. What of the characters? Live action can be lifted from existing material and manipulated/ blended into new scenes. Or they could be animated, or both. The simple stuff could be created in bulk and at speed, so that gives more time to spend on the more awkward areas of production. The end result could be achieved in a relatively short space of time, at good quality - and got out into the public domain rapidly. That would be the aim. If successful, more ambitious projects could be tackled - and the more that's out there, the less that has to be considered for future treatment. That's my thoughts on the subject, at the moment. I'm sure that people will pick holes in it, but that's the point of positive debate. We have to be practical about things at times and the fact is that if any missing material turns up now, then that's a bonus - but I think we will have a long wait yet, so let's work with what we have.
Agree, disagree? Fire away!
😂😂😂😂 sorry, just you were so keen to avoid us going off topic & look what happened, a bit like herding cats
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Post by lescox on Apr 1, 2019 18:17:14 GMT
Hi Richard. Maybe I've got my wires crossed, but I thought I had got us back on topic. I Set out to discuss the merits of what we might next have on offer, in the absence of missing material returning, by selecting one particular story that shouldn't be too difficult to turn around in a reasonable amount of time. What I was trying to avoid the subject of whether any old material may turn-up and concentrate on the merits of what could be practically recreated in the actual absence of said material.
Les
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Post by lousingh on Apr 2, 2019 19:14:21 GMT
Hi Richard. Maybe I've got my wires crossed, but I thought I had got us back on topic. I Set out to discuss the merits of what we might next have on offer, in the absence of missing material returning, by selecting one particular story that shouldn't be too difficult to turn around in a reasonable amount of time. What I was trying to avoid the subject of whether any old material may turn-up and concentrate on the merits of what could be practically recreated in the actual absence of said material. Les I like your theory and think it is largely sound. But as we can see from the replies, the devil will be in the details. I think some combination of live action, deep fake, and animation would be ideal, but complex. I think the BBC would go for something almost completely missing that would be popular ("Fury from the Deep" is an obvious candidate, even though an historical might be easier to do) if they try to go all out.
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