RWels
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Post by RWels on Dec 26, 2018 23:59:58 GMT
Pity the BBC decided to colourise the episodes though. Was this really necessary? REcolourise.
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Post by John Wall on Dec 27, 2018 0:04:02 GMT
Pity the BBC decided to colourise the episodes though. Was this really necessary? REcolourise. Colour Recovery - that was the original colour and absolutely first rate.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Dec 27, 2018 0:07:12 GMT
Well they were brilliant and a welcome (yet sadly all too rare) respite from the dross typically masquerading as 'quality' festive entertainment these days! Pity the BBC decided to colourise the episodes though. Was this really necessary? The episodes weren't colourised Matt. What you saw is the original (although imperfect) colour. It was captured on the black and white film and recovered using bespoke software written by Richard Russell. Paul
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Post by Peter Stirling on Dec 27, 2018 1:20:36 GMT
Well they were brilliant and a welcome (yet sadly all too rare) respite from the dross typically masquerading as 'quality' festive entertainment these days! Pity the BBC decided to colourise the episodes though. Was this really necessary? The episodes weren't colourised Matt. What you saw is the original (although imperfect) colour. It was captured on the black and white film and recovered using bespoke software written by Richard Russell. Paul Matt this how it is done, I am all for programmes originally made in colour being restored to colour and this process achieves that. www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjK-b4x9ZmQPaul amazing recovery ...detail is just wonderful ie - the early colour pasty make up- the low,low budget set- the dots picking up the camera flares in the right colour and a nice lively sound track. I hope you can recover the colour from The Seekers Farewell Concert and The Hollies concert
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Post by paul carney on Dec 27, 2018 2:01:12 GMT
Whilst being a huge M&W fan these episodes just proved to me that despite the serious consequences (Eric's heat attack) they were well shot of Sid and Dick as their writers. Before the showing of tonight's recoveries were broadcast we were treated to a showing of the legendary 1971 Xmas show using Eddie Brabin's material. The quality of the writing had improved markedly and Eric and Ernie were more confident in their performances, rather than the frenzied almost desperate style that defined them in previous series.It is the Braben years that define their legacy.
I am often bemused and in awe of those who have an understanding of how rough B&W film recordings can be restored to near original colour programmes so hats off to those involved in that.Given that these episodes are 50 years old the casual sexism and racism on display is forgivable ,but as someone of London Irish heritage I found the IRA routine jaw droppingly offensive even after all these years. It was originally broadcast barely 10 months before the troubles irrupted in NI with tragic consequences for the next 25 years.How no one in the BBC hierarchy at the time could not have seen how insulting that sketch would have been to many people in NI and the Republic is incredible. They were too busy banning Wet Dream by Max Romeo.
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Post by mattg on Dec 27, 2018 9:10:01 GMT
Well they were brilliant and a welcome (yet sadly all too rare) respite from the dross typically masquerading as 'quality' festive entertainment these days! Pity the BBC decided to colourise the episodes though. Was this really necessary? The episodes weren't colourised Matt. What you saw is the original (although imperfect) colour. It was captured on the black and white film and recovered using bespoke software written by Richard Russell. Paul Whoops! Then I humbly stand corrected. I was subconsciously thinking back to the other surviving footage of Series 1 (included with the DVD release of the duo's second series) being presented in B/W. You learn something new everyday!
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Post by Marie Griffiths on Dec 27, 2018 17:41:25 GMT
Great colour recovery. I seem to remember Eric as a fisherman as a child so this must have been repeated unless he did the fischerman sketch more than once. Repeated in early 1969 on BBC1... in black and white! Paul It must have been later as I wasnt born in 69.
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Post by Marie Griffiths on Dec 27, 2018 18:51:05 GMT
They could have slipped in the recently recovered Morecambe and Wise Xmas Drink Driving advert as well. It still holds true.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Dec 29, 2018 14:11:34 GMT
I am often bemused and in awe of those who have an understanding of how rough B&W film recordings can be restored to near original colour programmes so hats off to those involved in that.Given that these episodes are 50 years old the casual sexism and racism on display is forgivable ,but as someone of London Irish heritage I found the IRA routine jaw droppingly offensive even after all these years. It was originally broadcast barely 10 months before the troubles irrupted in NI with tragic consequences for the next 25 years.How no one in the BBC hierarchy at the time could not have seen how insulting that sketch would have been to many people in NI and the Republic is incredible. They were too busy banning Wet Dream by Max Romeo. I have a real problem with people finding offence in a 50 year old TV show. That was then, this is now and there are plenty of TV shows in archives all over the world that the audiences of today would find challenging. This is extremely mild by comparison and as ever, the joke is always on Morecambe and Wise. I also don't think that the show would have offended people at the time. I was a noisy two year old then, so I have no memory of it but I do know what television was like in the early seventies. We watched all sorts of stuff that today people would consider a bit dodgy. But they were all a product of their time. In this we have mention of the IRA. As you rightly point out, this is pre the troubles. The IRA don't actually feature in the sketch, everyone turns out to be a ham fisted British agent apart from Eric who fails to do a decent impression of either an Irishman or a pirate. The comedy is actually about stereotypes. A bit like the stereotypical way the IRA were portrayed in the much loved feature film 'The Quiet Man' which no-one in their right mind would find offensive, despite its dramatisation of stereotypes. I wonder if German people get fed up of comedy portrayals of the German army of WW2 in Hogans Heroes and Allo Allo or whether the French would find the portrayal of the resistance fighters in the same show offensive? I suspect that they would quickly realise that it's situation comedy and that it's preposterous and that's why people find it funny. But you did rightly point out that it's early Morecambe and Wise at the BBC and the writing didn't always hit the mark, and that is entirely fair. I suspect the series was seen by the BBC as a bit ragged round the edges and deliberately ditched the tapes when they settled on the winning format we all know and love. Paul
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RWels
Member
Posts: 2,857
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Post by RWels on Dec 29, 2018 16:45:57 GMT
I am often bemused and in awe of those who have an understanding of how rough B&W film recordings can be restored to near original colour programmes so hats off to those involved in that.Given that these episodes are 50 years old the casual sexism and racism on display is forgivable ,but as someone of London Irish heritage I found the IRA routine jaw droppingly offensive even after all these years. It was originally broadcast barely 10 months before the troubles irrupted in NI with tragic consequences for the next 25 years.How no one in the BBC hierarchy at the time could not have seen how insulting that sketch would have been to many people in NI and the Republic is incredible. They were too busy banning Wet Dream by Max Romeo. I have a real problem with people finding offence in a 50 year old TV show. That was then, this is now and there are plenty of TV shows in archives all over the world that the audiences of today would find challenging. This is extremely mild by comparison and as ever, the joke is always on Morecambe and Wise. I also don't think that the show would have offended people at the time. I was a noisy two year old then, so I have no memory of it but I do know what television was like in the early seventies. We watched all sorts of stuff that today people would consider a bit dodgy. But they were all a product of their time. In this we have mention of the IRA. As you rightly point out, this is pre the troubles. The IRA don't actually feature in the sketch, everyone turns out to be a ham fisted British agent apart from Eric who fails to do a decent impression of either an Irishman or a pirate. The comedy is actually about stereotypes. A bit like the stereotypical way the IRA were portrayed in the much loved feature film 'The Quiet Man' which no-one in their right mind would find offensive, despite its dramatisation of stereotypes. I wonder if German people get fed up of comedy portrayals of the German army of WW2 in Hogans Heroes and Allo Allo or whether the French would find the portrayal of the resistance fighters in the same show offensive? I suspect that they would quickly realise that it's situation comedy and that it's preposterous and that's why people find it funny. But you did rightly point out that it's early Morecambe and Wise at the BBC and the writing didn't always hit the mark, and that is entirely fair. I suspect the series was seen by the BBC as a bit ragged round the edges and deliberately ditched the tapes when they settled on the winning format we all know and love. Paul 'Allo 'Allo attracted some controversy when it first went out, there's a few bits on the DVD set of people discussing it on television in 1982, I think.
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Post by Jeff Leach on Dec 29, 2018 16:50:35 GMT
The UK Gold series Morecambe and Wise in America running at the moment has some interesting rare footage from The Ed Sullivan show and comparisons of the original ITV sketches and how they were adapted for the US market. Also some Sunday night at the Palladium clips with Arthur Haynes. gold.uktv.co.uk/shows/morecambe-and-wise-america/
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Post by mattg on Dec 29, 2018 19:06:43 GMT
I have a real problem with people finding offence in a 50 year old TV show. That was then, this is now and there are plenty of TV shows in archives all over the world that the audiences of today would find challenging. This is extremely mild by comparison and as ever, the joke is always on Morecambe and Wise. I also don't think that the show would have offended people at the time. I was a noisy two year old then, so I have no memory of it but I do know what television was like in the early seventies. We watched all sorts of stuff that today people would consider a bit dodgy. But they were all a product of their time. In this we have mention of the IRA. As you rightly point out, this is pre the troubles. The IRA don't actually feature in the sketch, everyone turns out to be a ham fisted British agent apart from Eric who fails to do a decent impression of either an Irishman or a pirate. The comedy is actually about stereotypes. A bit like the stereotypical way the IRA were portrayed in the much loved feature film 'The Quiet Man' which no-one in their right mind would find offensive, despite its dramatisation of stereotypes. I wonder if German people get fed up of comedy portrayals of the German army of WW2 in Hogans Heroes and Allo Allo or whether the French would find the portrayal of the resistance fighters in the same show offensive? I suspect that they would quickly realise that it's situation comedy and that it's preposterous and that's why people find it funny. But you did rightly point out that it's early Morecambe and Wise at the BBC and the writing didn't always hit the mark, and that is entirely fair. I suspect the series was seen by the BBC as a bit ragged round the edges and deliberately ditched the tapes when they settled on the winning format we all know and love. Paul 'Allo 'Allo attracted some controversy when it first went out, there's a few bits on the DVD set of people discussing it on television in 1982, I think. For the sake of clarity/context - and to briefly deviate from the thread's subject matter: the resulting controversy after 'Allo 'Allo first aired emanated predominantly from war veterans/verteran associations. They objected to what was perceived to be a flippant, disrespectful regard towards the ravages of occupation and the often terrible consequences suffered by those who courageously fought against it. Whilst such complaints are perhaps not without moderate merit the BBC wisely didn't capitulate and the show went on to became hugely popular and internationally beloved. Besides, Lloyd and Croft's creation was demonstrably bereft of any malicious intent against any group or nationality!
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Dec 29, 2018 19:10:50 GMT
Whilst such complaints are perhaps not without moderate merit the BBC wisely didn't capitulate and the show went on to became hugely popular and internationally beloved. Besides, Lloyd and Croft's creation was demonstrably bereft of any malicious intent against any group or nationality! This is true of course, although the same is true of the Ronnie Carroll Morecambe and Wise Show. Paul
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Post by paul carney on Dec 29, 2018 21:52:47 GMT
I am often bemused and in awe of those who have an understanding of how rough B&W film recordings can be restored to near original colour programmes so hats off to those involved in that.Given that these episodes are 50 years old the casual sexism and racism on display is forgivable ,but as someone of London Irish heritage I found the IRA routine jaw droppingly offensive even after all these years. It was originally broadcast barely 10 months before the troubles irrupted in NI with tragic consequences for the next 25 years.How no one in the BBC hierarchy at the time could not have seen how insulting that sketch would have been to many people in NI and the Republic is incredible. They were too busy banning Wet Dream by Max Romeo. I have a real problem with people finding offence in a 50 year old TV show. That was then, this is now and there are plenty of TV shows in archives all over the world that the audiences of today would find challenging. This is extremely mild by comparison and as ever, the joke is always on Morecambe and Wise. I also don't think that the show would have offended people at the time. I was a noisy two year old then, so I have no memory of it but I do know what television was like in the early seventies. We watched all sorts of stuff that today people would consider a bit dodgy. But they were all a product of their time. In this we have mention of the IRA. As you rightly point out, this is pre the troubles. The IRA don't actually feature in the sketch, everyone turns out to be a ham fisted British agent apart from Eric who fails to do a decent impression of either an Irishman or a pirate. The comedy is actually about stereotypes. A bit like the stereotypical way the IRA were portrayed in the much loved feature film 'The Quiet Man' which no-one in their right mind would find offensive, despite its dramatisation of stereotypes. I wonder if German people get fed up of comedy portrayals of the German army of WW2 in Hogans Heroes and Allo Allo or whether the French would find the portrayal of the resistance fighters in the same show offensive? I suspect that they would quickly realise that it's situation comedy and that it's preposterous and that's why people find it funny. But you did rightly point out that it's early Morecambe and Wise at the BBC and the writing didn't always hit the mark, and that is entirely fair. I suspect the series was seen by the BBC as a bit ragged round the edges and deliberately ditched the tapes when they settled on the winning format we all know and love. Paul Mr Vanezis I am always impressed at your commitment to archive TV and the depth of your knowledge. Perhaps this forum is the wrong place for me to have made a political point but I am from an Irish background and many members of my family were deeply affected by the troubles which did not start in August 1969. Tensions had been increasing for decades but the problems were constantly ignored by successive governments. My main point was astonishment that even then the BBC would broadcast a highly popular entertainment programme with any mention of the IRA. It demonstrated how out of touch the national broadcasting channel were with the feelings of a whole community of people at that time.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Dec 29, 2018 22:25:08 GMT
Mr Vanezis I am always impressed at your commitment to archive TV and the depth of your knowledge. Perhaps this forum is the wrong place for me to have made a political point but I am from an Irish background and many members of my family were deeply affected by the troubles which did not start in August 1969. Tensions had been increasing for decades but the problems were constantly ignored by successive governments. My main point was astonishment that even then the BBC would broadcast a highly popular entertainment programme with any mention of the IRA. It demonstrated how out of touch the national broadcasting channel were with the feelings of a whole community of people at that time. I also have an Irish grandmother and links to family in Galway. You might be right that it was misjudged at the time. However, that was fifty years ago and we can all look back at it with the benefit of our knowledge of history and our knowledge of television. The very fact that we can now see this programme means that we can have this debate about it. But there is little point in being offended by it now and regardless of the IRA mention, it's still a funny piece of television. It certainly isn't entirely the mis-step that some think it is. But my main point is that it was made for the audience then, not the audience now. However, we can still laugh at it, or shake our fists at it depending on how you feel about it. But don't be offended by it. Paul
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