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Post by Charles Daniels on Dec 13, 2018 7:02:09 GMT
It’s time to stop coming up with weird and wonderful theories to try and explain why PM would keep MEs in his sock draw. Personally I’m very happy with a couple of M&Ws, that’s potentially as good as DW imho. For me personally the WOW find is Basil Brush and the Kinks. I never even knew that existed before and now it's the number 1 piece of British television I absolutely have to see. Thank god I live within striking distance of London! Can't wait!
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Post by Ed Brown on Dec 14, 2018 8:32:13 GMT
I remember Ian Levine's notorious comment, made AFAIK just before the recovery of 'Tomb of the Cybermen'.
It seemed a bit defeatist, especially coming from someone like him, who had had tremendous enthusiasm for the project, who had personally saved the first Dalek serial from being incinerated by the BBC, and who had recovered colour recordings of 'Terror of the Autons', 'The Daemons', 'The Silurians' and 'Ambassadors of Death'.
So he makes an off-the-cuff remark, and is never allowed to forget it?
In the 25 years since he said that, I think I'm right in saying that 18 missing episodes have been recovered: 'Tomb of the Cybermen', 'Enemy of the World', 4 missing episodes of 'Web of Fear', 'The Lion', 1 episode of 'Dalek Masterplan', 1 episode of 'Galaxy 4', and 1 episode of 'Underwater Menace'. And one more episode of 'Web' is also known to survive.
So, a good reason not to make dumb statements. Who knows what's just around the corner?
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Post by Richard Marple on Dec 14, 2018 13:12:48 GMT
I remember just a week or so before The Lion was found, I was thinking that The Crusade would probably be one of the harder partially existing stories to find any more episodes for it.
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Simon Collis
Member
I have started to dream of lost things
Posts: 536
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Post by Simon Collis on Dec 14, 2018 23:22:55 GMT
I remember Ian Levine's notorious comment, made AFAIK just before the recovery of 'Tomb of the Cybermen'. It seemed a bit defeatist, especially coming from someone like him, who had had tremendous enthusiasm for the project, who had personally saved the first Dalek serial from being incinerated by the BBC, and who had recovered colour recordings of 'Terror of the Autons', 'The Daemons', 'The Silurians' and 'Ambassadors of Death'. So he makes an off-the-cuff remark, and is never allowed to forget it? In the 25 years since he said that, I think I'm right in saying that 18 missing episodes have been recovered: 'Tomb of the Cybermen', 'Enemy of the World', 4 missing episodes of 'Web of Fear', 'The Lion', 1 episode of 'Dalek Masterplan', 1 episode of 'Galaxy 4', and 1 episode of 'Underwater Menace'. And one more episode of 'Web' is also known to survive. So, a good reason not to make dumb statements. Who knows what's just around the corner? I don't think it was a dumb statement, but an - as he saw it - probably accurate summation of affairs at the time. He's since repeated the claim, tongue firmly in cheek, deliberately hoping that he'll be proven wrong again.
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Post by lousingh on Dec 16, 2018 20:14:39 GMT
I would like to go back to _The Macra Terror_ actually being the next story to be animated.
Why this and not an obvious alternative with greater name recognition like _The Evil of the Daleks_ or even _The Abominable Snowmen_? The only answer that makes sense to me is that the sales for _The Power of the Daleks_ wildly exceeded the BBC's expectations, so they could cater a bit more to the hardcore fans and not go with the less risky alternative. If so, that bodes really well for us.
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 18, 2018 9:28:32 GMT
I would like to go back to _The Macra Terror_ actually being the next story to be animated. Why this and not an obvious alternative with greater name recognition like _The Evil of the Daleks_ or even _The Abominable Snowmen_? The only answer that makes sense to me is that the sales for _The Power of the Daleks_ wildly exceeded the BBC's expectations, so they could cater a bit more to the hardcore fans and not go with the less risky alternative. If so, that bodes really well for us.
While I'm sure the good sales motivated them to take a risk, it was a risk they were going to have to take at some point. They really can't afford to burn up all the big hitters early on otherwise the collection is going to grind to a halt at some point half finished.
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Post by Charles Daniels on Dec 18, 2018 9:34:37 GMT
I would like to go back to _The Macra Terror_ actually being the next story to be animated. Why this and not an obvious alternative with greater name recognition like _The Evil of the Daleks_ or even _The Abominable Snowmen_? The only answer that makes sense to me is that the sales for _The Power of the Daleks_ wildly exceeded the BBC's expectations, so they could cater a bit more to the hardcore fans and not go with the less risky alternative. If so, that bodes really well for us. Marca Terror is 4 episodes Snowmen is 6 and Evil is 7. They know that Yeti sell (Web of Fear) They know that Daleks sell (it's the Daleks) So to me it makes sense - choose a 4 parter, near the same era as Power of the Daleks, with a monster which will work well in animated form. If it sells well, great! You've got a range. If it flops? Forget the small change, and focus on Daleks and Cybermen. But that's a wild speculation.
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Post by Robert Lia on Dec 18, 2018 21:15:16 GMT
Sooner or later there going to have to take a chance on stuff like "The Smugglers" and "The Highlanders" if there really serious about animations. I can see the point of not wanting to burn threw all the big name monsters story's first. Now "The Wheel in Space" mini episode 1 animation is a good way to judge interest in it based on the feed back it receives
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Post by John Wall on Dec 18, 2018 21:46:23 GMT
Sooner or later there going to have to take a chance on stuff like "The Smugglers" and "The Highlanders" if there really serious about animations. I can see the point of not wanting to burn threw all the big name monsters story's first. Now "The Wheel in Space" mini episode 1 animation is a good way to judge interest in it based on the feed back it receives Surely the places to start are where less animation is required. The Crusade - 2 out of 4 episodes survive and this would complete Season Two, possibility of a box set? Underwater Menace - again 2 out of 4 episodes survive. Galaxy Four - 1 and a bit episodes survive. Marginal imho. We’ve discussed Wheel in Space elsewhere and I enjoyed the animation although I thought the Doctor was better realised facially than Jamie. There’s now ten minutes of Episode 1 leaving another three plus 15 minutes required. What about tossing Faceless Ones into the mix? That’s got 2 out of 6 episodes surviving. After doing six episodes of Power that’s what required to complete Evil. Snowmen and Space Pirates each need five to complete. I think a deciding factor is the likelihood of recoveries. If Web 3 wasn’t known to be out there I expect that there’d have been a “Special Edition” in recent years. We now know that one or two MEs are held by collectiors and I expect that quiet negotiations are ongoing. If the episode exists there’s no point in commissioning animation so I’d expect those stories to be put on the back burner for animation, why commission, for example, six episodes to complete Evil if it’s known that another episode exists?
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Post by Robert Lia on Dec 18, 2018 22:07:56 GMT
They started doing the easy ones and stopped when they got to "The Underwater Menace" and "The Crusades" and skipped over them. I know the reason supposedly for "The Underwater Menace" being the company went out of business or something like that and some remarks about "to many characters to animate" in "The Crusades" along with the quality of episode 1.
Just animate all of them as complete animations and stick the existing episode's on as bonus features along with all the usual extras we have come to expect over the past 20 years.
I would say a good "double pack" would be "The Highlanders" and "The Underwater Menace" and "The Faceless Ones" and "The Evil of the Daleks".
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Post by John Wall on Dec 18, 2018 22:58:04 GMT
They started doing the easy ones and stopped when they got to "The Underwater Menace" and "The Crusades" and skipped over them. I know the reason supposedly for "The Underwater Menace" being the company went out of business or something like that and some remarks about "to many characters to animate" in "The Crusades" along with the quality of episode 1. Just animate all of them as complete animations and stick the existing episode's on as bonus features along with all the usual extras we have come to expect over the past 20 years. I would say a good "double pack" would be "The Highlanders" and "The Underwater Menace" and "The Faceless Ones" and "The Evil of the Daleks". Even with modern technology there is a cost for animation. It may not cost twice as much to do four episodes as two but it’s still somewhat more and the greater the cost the more that have to be sold. I want as many completed stories as possible.
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Post by Robert Lia on Dec 18, 2018 23:08:43 GMT
I think one of the problems with some of the earlier animations was that it was jarring (at lest to me) going back and forth between live action and animatio. I will agree unnecessary animation does cost money but may make the story flow better (as an animation).
Still I would buy "the Crusades" and "The Underwater Menace" if it were released as "The Moonbase" was. Its just the trend now seems to be leaning towards complete story's using animations, if that is the way its going then unless you want to rule out "Faceless Ones" and "Wheel in Space" you do them and include the existing episode's as extras.
If they go that route in a few years you might see Box sets with complete story's that are full animation
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Post by John Wall on Dec 18, 2018 23:22:45 GMT
I think one of the problems with some of the earlier animations was that it was jarring (at lest to me) going back and forth between live action and animatio. I will agree unnecessary animation does cost money but may make the story flow better (as an animation). Still I would buy "the Crusades" and "The Underwater Menace" if it were released as "The Moonbase" was. Its just the trend now seems to be leaning towards complete story's using animations, if that is the way its going then unless you want to rule out "Faceless Ones" and "Wheel in Space" you do them and include the existing episode's as extras. If they go that route in a few years you might see Box sets with complete story's that are full animation I’ll reoeat, why fund six episodes of animation when you only need to fund four? The selling price fir DVDs, downloads, etc is pretty well established so the higher the production cost the more you have to sell - this is economics 101 I’m afraid. If releases don’t make a reasonable return they won’t continue.
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Post by Brad Wolfe on Dec 18, 2018 23:52:59 GMT
Sooner or later there going to have to take a chance on stuff like "The Smugglers" and "The Highlanders" if there really serious about animations. I can see the point of not wanting to burn threw all the big name monsters story's first. Now "The Wheel in Space" mini episode 1 animation is a good way to judge interest in it based on the feed back it receives Surely the places to start are where less animation is required. The Crusade - 2 out of 4 episodes survive and this would complete Season Two, possibility of a box set? Given the BluRay box sets are being planned at four seasons per year, and given they've been putting new CGI extras as selling points for the releases so far, I could quite feasibly see The Crusade parts 2 and 4 being animated for the BluRay set as a selling point for Season 2, with it being the first '60s season release on BluRay. I hope so, anyhow! Of course, there may be some who feel miffed by not having a standalone release, but they could capitalise on it by having a separate DVD as well... just some thoughts. They could equally simply have telesnap recons, I suppose, given the rest of the season is pretty much intact, but personally I prefer animation so I hope I'm right...!
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Post by Robert Lia on Dec 19, 2018 0:03:04 GMT
A fair point but in that case the release of "The Moonbase" was perhaps considered unsuccessful? so "The Crusades" and "The Underwater Menace" were scrapped. Then after "Shada" they did "The Power of the Daleks" and now "The Underwater Menace" both of which have no surviving episode's to include. They also have opted not to do a special edition of "The Web of Fear" with episode three animated. One thinks its cause it (the original) might show up later but one also thinks it breaks up the live action to have 50 minutes of live action then 25 minutes of animation then going back to live action. Don't get me wrong I am not suggesting they animate all 6 episodes of "The Web of Fear" not at all.
My idea was that if you do all the episodes of a missing story as animations you can also market the DVD more than one way. If you include the existing episodes (including being able to see them in there proper place) in the story (sort of like how the DVD range gave you the chance to view updated special effects or the original as you watched).
We have what 10 story's with orphan episodes left to be animated "The Crusades", "Galaxy Four", "Daleks Master Plan", "The Celestial Toymaker", "The Underwater Menace" , "The Faceless Ones", "The Evil of the Daleks", "The Abominable Snowman", "The Wheel in Space" and "The Space Pirates". Five of which "Galaxy Four", "The Myth Makers',"The Daleks Master Plan", "The Massacre" and "The Space Pirates" don't even have telesnaps to help with the animation so I don't see those coming any time soon as they would take a lot more work.
This gives the BBC the option later of off having a box set of completely animated story's they can sell yet again (and we know how the BBC likes to sell it to us a third and forth time).
If we only animate the episode's with out surviving episodes but with tele-snaps then we have "Marco Polo", "The Crusades, "The Celestial Toymaker", "The Savages", "The Smugglers", "The Highlander's" , "The Abominable Snowman" and "Fury from the Deep".
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