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Post by christian bews on Sept 25, 2018 21:44:02 GMT
what is the archive status for thames tv's long-running panel game 'looks familiar' with the late denis norden?how many exist or missing?
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Sept 26, 2018 4:53:20 GMT
All safe in the archive on 1-inch or digibeta.
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Post by peterleslie on Oct 6, 2018 15:27:40 GMT
... and sadly likely to stay there being a nightmare (and hugely costly) to clear for a DVD release due to the masses of third party clips rights containined therein ... not unlike Thames 'Hollywood' 1980 documentary series which Network forlornly tried to clear a few years back.
Thinking about it, it's probably the same reason that Denis Nordern's 'It'll be Alright on the Night' has never made it to DVD either.
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Post by garygraham on Oct 6, 2018 15:43:45 GMT
I supposed they could be re-edited to remove the clips. It might even be possible to use a still frame from each clip. It might come under the "for purposes of review" clause in the copyright law and would be an insignificant part of the original work. But I'm not a legal expert.
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Post by Peter Stirling on Oct 6, 2018 22:59:15 GMT
I supposed they could be re-edited to remove the clips. It might even be possible to use a still frame from each clip. It might come under the "for purposes of review" clause in the copyright law and would be an insignificant part of the original work. But I'm not a legal expert. Shows like 'Looks Familar' and before Bob Monkhouse's 'Mad Movies' were often a victim of their own success..they showed old films that had been neglected and forgotten and the very nature of the programme made them appealing to the public again..which put up their rights values and they changed many hands after as an investment like old wine cellars. Sometime after, Bob Monkhouse ended up in court versing the big film distributors who said he had been exploiting and using their materials...they had forgotten that when he had used them they were of little value rights wise,old and forgotten and it was actually the likes of him who had sparked new interest in them.
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Post by garygraham on Oct 7, 2018 22:49:16 GMT
I supposed they could be re-edited to remove the clips. It might even be possible to use a still frame from each clip. It might come under the "for purposes of review" clause in the copyright law and would be an insignificant part of the original work. But I'm not a legal expert. Shows like 'Looks Familar' and before Bob Monkhouse's 'Mad Movies' were often a victim of their own success..they showed old films that had been neglected and forgotten and the very nature of the programme made them appealing to the public again..which put up their rights values and they changed many hands after as an investment like old wine cellars. Sometime after, Bob Monkhouse ended up in court versing the big film distributors who said he had been exploiting and using their materials...they had forgotten that when he had used them they were of little value rights wise,old and forgotten and it was actually the likes of him who had sparked new interest in them. Though "I'm doing the copyright holder a favour by showing it" is also a familiar excuse by infringers Slightly off topic... The documentary that is an extra on the DVD of Unknown Chaplin reveals that many of the out-takes from Chaplin's films which were on nitrate film stock disintegrated in the decade after the 1980s series was made by Thames. It hadn't been possible to arrange for all the out-take films to be preserved. They were owned by the film collector Raymond Rohauer who died in 1987.
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Post by christian bews on Nov 7, 2018 21:30:52 GMT
... and sadly likely to stay there being a nightmare (and hugely costly) to clear for a DVD release due to the masses of third party clips rights containined therein ... not unlike Thames 'Hollywood' 1980 documentary series which Network forlornly tried to clear a few years back. Thinking about it, it's probably the same reason that Denis Nordern's 'It'll be Alright on the Night' has never made it to DVD either. i can recall 'it'll be alright on the night 3' was available on video rental around about 1982.i maybe right or wrong i remembered my parents rented that tape in 1984 it did contain the same outakes featured on the broadcast version.in the early days of videotape when they release a clip one did the video companies at the time ever asked permisson from all the studios to clear it?
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Post by christian bews on Nov 7, 2018 21:40:49 GMT
Shows like 'Looks Familar' and before Bob Monkhouse's 'Mad Movies' were often a victim of their own success..they showed old films that had been neglected and forgotten and the very nature of the programme made them appealing to the public again..which put up their rights values and they changed many hands after as an investment like old wine cellars. Sometime after, Bob Monkhouse ended up in court versing the big film distributors who said he had been exploiting and using their materials...they had forgotten that when he had used them they were of little value rights wise,old and forgotten and it was actually the likes of him who had sparked new interest in them. Though "I'm doing the copyright holder a favour by showing it" is also a familiar excuse by infringers Slightly off topic... The documentary that is an extra on the DVD of Unknown Chaplin reveals that many of the out-takes from Chaplin's films which were on nitrate film stock disintegrated in the decade after the 1980s series was made by Thames. It hadn't been possible to arrange for all the out-take films to be preserved. They were owned by the film collector Raymond Rohauer who died in 1987. network at the moment is releasing 4 of the 5 decades of tom hanks' look at what changed the world in 'the sixties' 'the seventies' 'the eighties' 'the nineties' & 'the 2000s.i never bought the dvds but i've seen all the series on sky arts.as all the episodes featured more clips than the interviews do the network dvds featured the same clips as shown on TV or were they different or removed when they cleared a release on dvd? it was distributed by fremantle media & was one of the companies to be released on network.i hope fremantle or the US producers CNN may say its OK to use the clips on DVD.
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Post by Mark Tinkler on Nov 8, 2018 9:28:11 GMT
They won't "say" it's ok, they will charge for use so it's whether or not the copyright and 3rd party rights have been cleared - it's cheaper to clear clip rights upfront when a programme is made like clearing for all media, 10 years for worldwide use. But money might mean it can only be cleared (for example) for UK TV only for 5 years, inc catchup services. But if it's ever been out on video, downloads, DVD etc., all rights SHOULD have been cleared - otherwise it's copyright infringement which, to be honest, is a kind of theft. It's common for repeats of programmes to have clips taken out due to costs or clearances not being granted - certainly ALRIGHT ON THE NIGHT on video would have been cleared but very possibly the programmes were shorter than broadcast version.
A more obscure example is Network's release of THE IPCRESS FILE which I only bought because it had LWT's CANDID CAINE doc on it as an extra - but was disappointed that it had a whole section missing, probably due to music costs as it involved Quincy Jones talking about the music on THE ITALIAN JOB.
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Post by peterleslie on Dec 4, 2018 9:16:16 GMT
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Post by garygraham on Dec 7, 2018 1:00:03 GMT
But if it's ever been out on video, downloads, DVD etc., all rights SHOULD have been cleared - otherwise it's copyright infringement which, to be honest, is a kind of theft. I'm told by a well-known TV director who worked in the industry from the late 50s onwards that he sometimes accepted a low fee for directing in return for a share of profits. However he says the company concerned hasn't paid him what he is due. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if companies didn't always clear copyright. Another DVD of a series he directed in the 70s has just been released recently and been mentioned on this very forum.
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Post by Mark Tinkler on Dec 7, 2018 9:44:11 GMT
There are guidelines about what should and shouldn't be paid to the UK guilds like actors, musicians and so on - if a director signed a one-off deal with a production company way back when, it would be up to the folks that own that catalogue to keep to the arrangement... if they knew about that deal and the paperwork still existed so that they COULD know about it.
All I can tell is what should happen - I've been working in broadcast TV for over 30 years, clearing archive for TV use so know more than most - but still not everything!
I know that some DVDs are released without 3rd party clearances being made - called 'doing a runner' ! But I personally, and other people in Archive Producing roles, would not be allowed to get away with that as the production companies & broadcasters would come done on us like a ton of bricks.
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Post by Peter Stirling on Feb 22, 2019 13:51:09 GMT
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Post by T Morgan on Apr 26, 2022 19:08:50 GMT
All safe in the archive on 1-inch or digibeta. That's good to know. However, the Kaleidoscope episode guide is missing the guests for some editions. Is there any chance we could find out who they were? I feel sure I've seen Bob and Alf Pearson listed as guests for Looks Familiar, though I can't find any evidence of it online now. I enquired with Fremantle, who could only find a reference to the Pearsons on an old can of film. It would apparently cost several hundred pounds to transfer it. Maybe this is something Kaleidoscope could look into? If all episodes exist, then perhaps the Pearsons were on one of the episodes with no guests listed. The episodes with no guests seem to mostly be from 1977 and 1978. It would be good if TPTV could repeat LF, though I imagine clearing the rights to the third-party clips would make it a nightmare. It's a shame there isn't some kind of clause which allows clips to be used for illustrative purposes. I've seen a few episodes via off-air recordings.
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Post by ifryer on May 16, 2022 8:39:39 GMT
... and sadly likely to stay there being a nightmare (and hugely costly) to clear for a DVD release due to the masses of third party clips rights containined therein ... not unlike Thames 'Hollywood' 1980 documentary series which Network forlornly tried to clear a few years back. Thinking about it, it's probably the same reason that Denis Nordern's 'It'll be Alright on the Night' has never made it to DVD either. With the silent movie excerpts used in Hollywood now approaching 100 years old, I wonder if we are close to them going out of copyright. That's if the problems are entirely from this issue and there aren't problems with clearing the interview footage.
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