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Post by Mike Biggs on Jul 10, 2018 7:21:50 GMT
I suspect that more is to come (one can't prove a negative, and I doubt we'll ever find out with precision what happened to every print). However, I have two caveats: 1) No prediction on when this will be- it could be shortly, or it could be close to a decade from now; 2) If past history means anything, the stuff most rumored about being found won't be, and the recoveries will be ones that were not predicted beforehand. I beg to differ-if there's anything that history has shown is that those serials rumoured to exist eventually do turn up. Groundswell in fandom is always a good indicator of what exists in my opinion. It isn't just idle rumour-mongering,it has a basis in fact.It's just that it's a long time coming. Although by now just about every episode has been rumoured to exist at one point or another.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 10:02:17 GMT
I suspect that more is to come (one can't prove a negative, and I doubt we'll ever find out with precision what happened to every print). However, I have two caveats: 1) No prediction on when this will be- it could be shortly, or it could be close to a decade from now; 2) If past history means anything, the stuff most rumored about being found won't be, and the recoveries will be ones that were not predicted beforehand. I beg to differ-if there's anything that history has shown is that those serials rumoured to exist eventually do turn up. Groundswell in fandom is always a good indicator of what exists in my opinion. It isn't just idle rumour-mongering,it has a basis in fact.It's just that it's a long time coming. I agree with mackenziefehr on 1). I feel it will still be a while yet. I am with you Jaspal on it isn't just idle rumour-mongering, it has a basis in fact... I am extremely suspicious of a rumour of just one or two episodes found. That's easy to invent and easy for fans to swallow. If I can play Devil's advocate here: why the hell would various pot-stirring individuals concot a story involving a motherlode of episodes? Do they not understand that such invented rumours are extremely unbelieveable from the off? LOL big time. Invent a rumour that's at least credible for Christ's sake, involving two or three serials at the most. And don't involve POTD or EOTD and other serials of which scant few copies were made. I mean, come on..!
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Post by ianphillips on Jul 10, 2018 12:37:44 GMT
I beg to differ-if there's anything that history has shown is that those serials rumoured to exist eventually do turn up. Groundswell in fandom is always a good indicator of what exists in my opinion. It isn't just idle rumour-mongering,it has a basis in fact.It's just that it's a long time coming. I agree with mackenziefehr on 1). I feel it will still be a while yet. I am with you Jaspal on it isn't just idle rumour-mongering, it has a basis in fact... I am extremely suspicious of a rumour of just one or two episodes found. That's easy to invent and easy for fans to swallow. If I can play Devil's advocate here: why the hell would various pot-stirring individuals concot a story involving a motherlode of episodes? Do they not understand that such invented rumours are extremely unbelieveable from the off? LOL big time. Invent a rumour that's at least credible for Christ's sake, involving two or three serials at the most. And don't involve POTD or EOTD and other serials of which scant few copies were made. I mean, come on..! Don't involve Planet of Giants 4. If any rumor ever has that, you run away as fast as possible.
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Post by samnurden on Jul 10, 2018 21:02:25 GMT
I agree with mackenziefehr on 1). I feel it will still be a while yet. I am with you Jaspal on it isn't just idle rumour-mongering, it has a basis in fact... I am extremely suspicious of a rumour of just one or two episodes found. That's easy to invent and easy for fans to swallow. If I can play Devil's advocate here: why the hell would various pot-stirring individuals concot a story involving a motherlode of episodes? Do they not understand that such invented rumours are extremely unbelieveable from the off? LOL big time. Invent a rumour that's at least credible for Christ's sake, involving two or three serials at the most. And don't involve POTD or EOTD and other serials of which scant few copies were made. I mean, come on..! Don't involve Planet of Giants 4. If any rumor ever has that, you run away as fast as possible. Ian Levine did a tidy job, honestly. It's not the actual thing, but it's close enough and you get a solid idea of what was scrapped. It's been awhile since I saw it, but the only thing remotely important in that cut episode was the death of the cat, which had a deeper insight into DN6 and what it can do. The rest is just fluff, depending on the person. Some people enjoy the character banter and development of a couple of the side character, but it's honestly just filler. Not that I'm aiming to be unappreciative or anything, but that's just my view. If it magically popped into existence, I would certainly rewatch it. Good story, but I can see why they left a lot of it on the cutting room floor.
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Post by Chris Gilbert on Aug 8, 2018 11:13:35 GMT
I voted that more will come back. Mainly because if he had only found Web and Enemy I can't understand why Phil would keep giving positive hints and messages that more could be out there.
Web 3 seems to be out there and I would love to know why Phil thinks it will come back and possibly soon.
As for the thought that a couple of episodes are held in the hands of private collectors, I'm unsure why this is suddenly known to be true and if so how long have certain people known about collectors having them. What has changed? What has been revealed and to whom?
Overall, after the Omnirumour years of hope 2013-16 I have gone back to how I felt from 2004 to 2011, in that there are probably some out there but we have no idea when we will find out.
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Post by EJR Tairne on Aug 9, 2018 17:03:17 GMT
As for the thought that a couple of episodes are held in the hands of private collectors, I'm unsure why this is suddenly known to be true and if so how long have certain people known about collectors having them. What has changed? What has been revealed and to whom? It's not that it's particularly new. It's just that Paul Vanezis appeared on a podcast a little while ago and, when asked, responded that he knew of a few episodes in private hands. Which has been long suspected, but never publicly confirmed so far as I know. There's no indication that those episodes are any closer to being made available, but, well, that's where we are at the moment.
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Post by Chris Gilbert on Oct 22, 2018 15:30:33 GMT
As for the thought that a couple of episodes are held in the hands of private collectors, I'm unsure why this is suddenly known to be true and if so how long have certain people known about collectors having them. What has changed? What has been revealed and to whom? It's not that it's particularly new. It's just that Paul Vanezis appeared on a podcast a little while ago and, when asked, responded that he knew of a few episodes in private hands. Which has been long suspected, but never publicly confirmed so far as I know. There's no indication that those episodes are any closer to being made available, but, well, that's where we are at the moment. Yes I am aware he did the podcast and what he said. The point I was making is that I find it interesting why he is suddenly discussing this, when for the last 30 years most involved with missing episodes have avoided making comments about private collectors.
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Post by simonashby on Oct 22, 2018 17:01:47 GMT
It's not that it's particularly new. It's just that Paul Vanezis appeared on a podcast a little while ago and, when asked, responded that he knew of a few episodes in private hands. Which has been long suspected, but never publicly confirmed so far as I know. There's no indication that those episodes are any closer to being made available, but, well, that's where we are at the moment. Yes I am aware he did the podcast and what he said. The point I was making is that I find it interesting why he is suddenly discussing this, when for the last 30 years most involved with missing episodes have avoided making comments about private collectors. It is indeed interesting. Either in that 30 years he has not seen evidence of it until now (therefore has nothing to say), or that some of these collectors are becoming more open to sharing the material. Maybe a mixture of both. He's always careful with his words and wouldn't share information without making sure that it was okay to do so. It does suggest a small step forward.
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Post by John Wall on Oct 23, 2018 17:59:11 GMT
Yes I am aware he did the podcast and what he said. The point I was making is that I find it interesting why he is suddenly discussing this, when for the last 30 years most involved with missing episodes have avoided making comments about private collectors. It is indeed interesting. Either in that 30 years he has not seen evidence of it until now (therefore has nothing to say), or that some of these collectors are becoming more open to sharing the material. Maybe a mixture of both. He's always careful with his words and wouldn't share information without making sure that it was okay to do so. It does suggest a small step forward. It’s also worth remembering that Dr Who prints are very rare, there are plenty of collectors who’ve never seen one. Airlock and UM2 only came back because of a chance conversation with a collector.
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Post by cjones on Oct 23, 2018 19:36:15 GMT
Yes I am aware he did the podcast and what he said. The point I was making is that I find it interesting why he is suddenly discussing this, when for the last 30 years most involved with missing episodes have avoided making comments about private collectors. It is indeed interesting. Either in that 30 years he has not seen evidence of it until now (therefore has nothing to say), or that some of these collectors are becoming more open to sharing the material. Maybe a mixture of both. He's always careful with his words and wouldn't share information without making sure that it was okay to do so. It does suggest a small step forward. A very small step forward, perhaps. It *might* suggest he has okayed putting that very insignificant bit of information into the public sphere, without any suggestion of a source, with a collector holding material, but frankly you don't even have to infer that much to explain it. A sufficiently self-possessed film collector presumably wouldn't mind at all reading or hearing a pronouncement of that sort - limited, anonymous, and equivocal on the issue of a future return - even if PV hadn't asked for permission first. Or it may be that this or that film collector simply doesn't move in ME circles, and wouldn't know anyway. (Or care, for that matter.) Either way, we're in a waiting game, so sit down, put the kettle on, and hit F5.
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Post by simonashby on Oct 23, 2018 21:33:06 GMT
It is indeed interesting. Either in that 30 years he has not seen evidence of it until now (therefore has nothing to say), or that some of these collectors are becoming more open to sharing the material. Maybe a mixture of both. He's always careful with his words and wouldn't share information without making sure that it was okay to do so. It does suggest a small step forward. A very small step forward, perhaps. It *might* suggest he has okayed putting that very insignificant bit of information into the public sphere, without any suggestion of a source, with a collector holding material, but frankly you don't even have to infer that much to explain it. A sufficiently self-possessed film collector presumably wouldn't mind at all reading or hearing a pronouncement of that sort - limited, anonymous, and equivocal on the issue of a future return - even if PV hadn't asked for permission first. Or it may be that this or that film collector simply doesn't move in ME circles, and wouldn't know anyway. (Or care, for that matter.) Either way, we're in a waiting game, so sit down, put the kettle on, and hit F5. Well, that's pretty much what I was saying. When I said that he wouldn't share information without making sure it was okay to do so, I meant that in the broadest possible sense. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that a film collector has given him a nod and wink to suggest a return. Not that I said that anyway. What has actually happened is impossible to quantify on existing evidence. The only thing we can deduce is that something has happened. On second thought, I am confident in saying that this is actually a step forward - at least 2 episodes have been identified and are known to be kept in good condition. Objectively that is good news.
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Post by John Wall on Oct 23, 2018 22:41:18 GMT
I must check what PV actually said, need to listen to it sometime. However we know from PM that WoF3 existed in late 2011 when he got to Jos but when he returned after a year or so fighting the red tape it’d gone and I think he has a reasonable idea where it went.
To cut to the chase, could what PV said just refer to WoF3?
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Post by simonashby on Oct 23, 2018 23:08:29 GMT
I must check what PV actually said, need to listen to it sometime. However we know from PM that WoF3 existed in late 2011 when he got to Jos but when he returned after a year or so fighting the red tape it’d gone and I think he has a reasonable idea where it went. To cut to the chase, could what PV said just refer to WoF3? Paul said "a couple", so more than 1.
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Post by andyeves on Oct 24, 2018 2:37:31 GMT
I must check what PV actually said, need to listen to it sometime. However we know from PM that WoF3 existed in late 2011 when he got to Jos but when he returned after a year or so fighting the red tape it’d gone and I think he has a reasonable idea where it went. To cut to the chase, could what PV said just refer to WoF3? Paul said "a couple", so more than 1. Phil said that the JOS station manager actually took 2 tapes - WOF3 & AN Other, the identity of which he wasn't prepared to reveal at that time (so could be non-DW). However, my gut feel is that it is not these to which Paul alluded ... although I could of course be wrong.
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Post by John Wall on Oct 24, 2018 10:02:19 GMT
There are various candidates for something other than WoF3. Let’s be very cautious and just assume that PV is aware of one other besides WoF3.
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