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Post by Dan S on Jul 5, 2018 18:32:49 GMT
I remember when Doctor Who returned in 2005 how it was often quite hard to make out dialogue because of loud 'background' music ( & to a lesser extent sometimes indistinct verbal performance - but nothing to do with it not being 'rp') - whereas the original is almost always crystal clear. I think I read somewhere this was partly to do with compression for the transmission versions & that the DVD versions are clearer ( not that I mind too much now as I fairly soon concluded that new Who imo is generally a travesty of the original in terms of both its aesthetics & its essence, & now rarely watch it ). There were similar problems with the audio on 'Life On Mars' - & again; apparently on the home video releases it sounds a lot better. Could it be something to do with what sort of TV people watch it on, whether it's surround sound or whatever and whether it's configured correctly. Just that I've read a lot of Dr Who discussion on on another (not Dr Who-related) forum and there's always a few people who comment on the music being too loud, but I literally NEVER notice the incidental music. I've also seen the types of comments about the music saying something like they knew Clara was going to appear because Clara's Theme started playing. Nope, NEVER noticed the music, I wouldn't know Clara's Theme if it slapped me in the face with a trout. (That's just an example, I don't even know it there is a Clara's Theme, I just remember it was someone's name.) Your mention of compression reminded me that the compression on BBC Radio seems worse than it was a few years ago. I wish they'd stop doing that. Even though Iplayer now has the radio available as 320kbps it still sometimes comes across sounding low quality and crappy because of the extreme compression.
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Post by williammcgregor on Jul 5, 2018 19:08:10 GMT
My case in point about annoying/unnecessary background music has been proven again! as I settled down to watch a current documentary series "Great Rail Restorations" with Peter Snow on Channel 4...
guess what?...it has been totally ruined by that bloody background music
also the annoying trait that (Ronnie McDevitt) mentioned earlier of showing you snippets from the programme so that the (actual programme does'nt start for 4 mins!)
They even introduced us to the guys who were going to help restore the carriages...this is Dave etc etc...as if we are interested in their names...we don't care just show us the bloody programme!
And as (tombeveridge) mentioned earlier they have to keep repeating themselves as we are too feeble to remember something that was mentioned about 5 bleeding mins ago
Give me strength
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Post by tom rogers on Jul 5, 2018 21:16:45 GMT
[sarcasm alert]
In a world where most folks watch video on their phones, where they accept aural-pudding (i.e. mp3 files) as real music, where nearly every digital signal is compressed and chopped to near-anonymitiy, where having the attention span of a flea is deemed ideal and is encouraged by much of mass media, where the art and skill of reading is constantly being denigrated and discouraged, and where instant gratification is the law of the land, I am not sure what the problem is here.
It is indeed a "Brave New World," Mr. Huxley, innit?
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Post by Richard Marple on Jul 6, 2018 16:53:54 GMT
The increase of volume during adverts is bad, especially when you are watching a quiet programme.
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Post by garygraham on Jul 7, 2018 0:52:22 GMT
Digital technology is marvellous but is also to blame for a lot of these. It's possible to have numerous soundtracks, slap titles over everything and basically anyone with a laptop can fiddle around with a broadcast programme at almost no cost.
Often less is more. Limits and restrictions produce creativity. This is why YouTube is like a breath of fresh air sometimes and so are some old programmes.
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Post by Sue Butcher on Oct 8, 2018 8:02:07 GMT
My biggest gripe is the way they, particularly the BBC, judge old footage by today's standards. Not just the censoring and re-editing, though that is bad enough, but having people sneering at how "wrong" everything once was. I was watching an episode of 'The Dick Emery Show' recently, and it struck me that these days it wouldn't even get through the opening credits without a twitter storm of so-called racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. Rant over! : ) Leonard Maltin, apologising for a Mickey Mouse cartoon: "It was wrong then, and it's wrong now!" No it blimming wasn't! How can we possibly know what things we are saying now are going to be considered wrong in eighty years?
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Post by Peter Stirling on Oct 8, 2018 10:24:46 GMT
My biggest gripe is the way they, particularly the BBC, judge old footage by today's standards. Not just the censoring and re-editing, though that is bad enough, but having people sneering at how "wrong" everything once was. I was watching an episode of 'The Dick Emery Show' recently, and it struck me that these days it wouldn't even get through the opening credits without a twitter storm of so-called racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. Rant over! : ) I think it maybe a case of today they do it because they can and they have nothing better to do as technology has taken over most of their tasks.. way back when, a post production edit would require booking and then a long session with a pro. I noticed the other night a modern programme called 'Salvage Hunters' was repeated with edits to the dialog that was basically to do with the vanity of the programme rather than any technical or legal reason. Also as you imply most programmes today have to be on message that everything in the past was crap and what wonderful human beings we are today.
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RWels
Member
Posts: 2,852
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Post by RWels on Oct 8, 2018 11:05:56 GMT
Going to play the devil's advocate here. Yes, SJW and "PC gone mad" do exist. But... Examples of PC madness are often not quite so bad as some make out: A single cinema doesn't show "Gone with the wind" - but the film is quite ubiquitous, and should they show it every year when attendence was mediocre? You can see Birth of a nation or Triumph of the will whenever you want. BBC won't show, or cuts, some series - but they are available uncut on DVD. Plus, I myself met more racisty people online than I met SJWs; and if I watch the news, none of the many problems worldwide were caused by PC-ness. On the other hand, their opponents are behind some of the deeply troubling developments that we see today. I'll rejoin the fight against annoying correctness when worse threats have gone (if they ever do). But if I observe some of the people who are protesting against PC, then sometimes, I am not sure if I want to be on their side... End of devil's advocacy.
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Post by garygraham on Oct 8, 2018 19:09:54 GMT
When you look at tapes from the 1980s it's surprising to see how this has crept up on us. The Young Ones includes the "N" word spoken by a racist policeman. Ben Elton has a sketch about a woman who goes around town with her skirt tucked into her knickers. Harry Enfield's series has the word "poof" spoken by "the scousers". I don't think any of the above would be shown on TV now? At the time all of these were seen as alternative and progressive but now as forbidden as Benny Hill who they used to mock.
What I don't like is that even I feel somewhat "shocked" when I see the above. We have been conditioned. This is why so much modern comedy seems bland I think.
A lot of the old British films that we grew up with are never seen on terrestrial TV now: Will Hay, Arthur Askey, Old Mother Riley and numerous others. Laurel and Hardy too.
The opening sequence of the Arthur Askey film "I Thank You" is very inventive and cheeky. He wakes up between two women but the camera pulls out to reveal they are sleeping on an Underground platform. He plugs his electric shaver into the green and red traffic light. Then walks along and, shock, sees someone who looks like Hitler sleeping. But on further inspection he is reading the Jewish Chronicle and Arthur breathes a sign of relief. Later there is a singalong in the Tube station "Let's get a hold of Hitler, String him up on high, How high shall we hang him?" The audience sings the chorus "high, high, high".
These were cosy "film matinee" presentations on ITV in the 1970s and no one batted an eyelid. Hitler was a figure of fun.
In a healthy society it should be possible to appreciate all of the above by putting it into context as part of our culture and history. Things being available on DVD isn't the same as them being on broadcast TV.
And what next? The Carry On films must surely be living on borrowed time and drag in particular. Once the censor's pencil ticks that box vast swathes of TV will never be seen again: Danny La Rue, Dick Emery, Les Dawson, Dustin Gee and numerous others.
If things can't be shown how long before companies see no point in keeping them?
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Post by Richard Marple on Oct 8, 2018 20:02:39 GMT
It's interesting about Hitler that most of the mocking was before the outside world know about the holocaust.
Charlie Chaplin once said he wouldn't have made the Great Dictator if he knew how evil Hitler would get.
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RWels
Member
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Post by RWels on Oct 8, 2018 21:21:39 GMT
When you look at tapes from the 1980s it's surprising to see how this has crept up on us. The Young Ones includes the "N" word spoken by a racist policeman. Ben Elton has a sketch about a woman who goes around town with her skirt tucked into her knickers. Harry Enfield's series has the word "poof" spoken by "the scousers". I don't think any of the above would be shown on TV now? At the time all of these were seen as alternative and progressive but now as forbidden as Benny Hill who they used to mock. What I don't like is that even I feel somewhat "shocked" when I see the above. We have been conditioned. This is why so much modern comedy seems bland I think. A lot of the old British films that we grew up with are never seen on terrestrial TV now: Will Hay, Arthur Askey, Old Mother Riley and numerous others. Laurel and Hardy too. The opening sequence of the Arthur Askey film "I Thank You" is very inventive and cheeky. He wakes up between two women but the camera pulls out to reveal they are sleeping on an Underground platform. He plugs his electric shaver into the green and red traffic light. Then walks along and, shock, sees someone who looks like Hitler sleeping. But on further inspection he is reading the Jewish Chronicle and Arthur breathes a sign of relief. Later there is a singalong in the Tube station "Let's get a hold of Hitler, String him up on high, How high shall we hang him?" The audience sings the chorus "high, high, high". These were cosy "film matinee" presentations on ITV in the 1970s and no one batted an eyelid. Hitler was a figure of fun. In a healthy society it should be possible to appreciate all of the above by putting it into context as part of our culture and history. Things being available on DVD isn't the same as them being on broadcast TV. But it's not being deleted from history. And I severely distrust some of the people who stand up "to defend their culture from attack". A lot of the old British films that we grew up with are never seen on terrestrial TV now I don't begrudge you your nostalgia, but in other genres than comedy, more is now allowed than ever. Anyway what you say is not entirely true, there were emotional discussions and severe objections back when 'Allo 'allo first aired too. And there were comedies back then that were considered too controversial, such as Heil Honey and Hardwicke House. It's interesting about Hitler that most of the mocking was before the outside world know about the holocaust. Also, the idea that hitler is now out of bounds is new to me, and I wonder if that is really the case. There's The Producers (twice) and I would say he's often used as a target or for shock value.
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Post by Sue Butcher on Oct 9, 2018 1:01:10 GMT
Second World War comedy can seem disturbingly vicious now, but that's war propaganda for you. Given the awful times it was understandable, but the trouble is we're still looking for Hitlers.
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Post by garygraham on Oct 9, 2018 4:56:50 GMT
> It's interesting about Hitler that most of the mocking was before the outside world > know about the holocaust. Charlie Chaplin once said he wouldn't have made the Great > Dictator if he knew how evil Hitler would get.
Not sure about that. Monty Python and Spike Milligan all include sketches dressed as Hitler. He was a comedy character. In the 70s and early 80s it was quote common to see symbols and uniforms. Even Hot Gossip dancing in Nazi uniforms. I have a clip of Gorden Kaye giving Terry Wogan a Nazi salute on Children In Need one year at the end of an 'Allo 'Allo item. It's a bit weird that this has become more and more of an issue the further we have got from the Second World War. I think it makes it seem more worrying. Much better to laugh and ridicule.
> But it's not being deleted from history. And I severely distrust some of the people > who stand up "to defend their culture from attack".
But whether you like it or not it is our past culture and it's unreasonable to imply that someone is racist simply because they believe our past culture should be visible and that younger people should be able to see and yes learn from it. It can be presented in context.
Maybe these films and TV shows or parts of them will be deleted if they can't be screened? People on this forum know better than most that there are numerous examples of material being junked because it wasn't commercially viable. Bits that have been chopped out have often been lost. Even from some of the best known films in history.
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Post by petercheck on Oct 9, 2018 7:19:34 GMT
Even if footage isn't being junked, history is being re-written. Try telling the average person under 40 that a beauty contest ('Miss World') usually topped annual TV viewing figures, Benny Hill was far more popular than Monty Python, and that Glam Rock made a bigger commercial impact than punk rock. Even if they're aware of this, they're somehow conditioned to think it was "wrong".
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Post by Peter Stirling on Oct 9, 2018 9:15:45 GMT
Even if footage isn't being junked, history is being re-written. Try telling the average person under 40 that a beauty contest ('Miss World') usually topped annual TV viewing figures, Benny Hill was far more popular than Monty Python, and that Glam Rock made a bigger commercial impact than punk rock. Even if they're aware of this, they're somehow conditioned to think it was "wrong". There is one Benny Hill Show where a guy in the audience has completely lost it..he is laughing his head off. Apparently somebody watching Benny Hill at home died from a heart attack (what a way to go) after laughing too much at Benny. IIRC There was also one of those mid atlantic thingys from ATV called 'The John Davidson Show' which had 'safe' crooner type singer guests but sometimes the audience reactions to them was quite magical. So while today's TV laughs and sneers at the past TV, we remember when we actually laughed and enjoyed the programmes but of course once we are all gone as you say it will be re-written.
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