|
Post by Richard Bignell on Jun 14, 2018 22:25:34 GMT
These people revealed that they had this in a public, written forum. (No, not rec.arts.drwho.) I'm still at a loss to understand why you won't say what this mysterious "public written forum" is. You can't be talking about the internet, as that wasn't around in the 1980s in any format that the public could use and things like rec.arts.drwho didn't come until much later. So you have to be talking about a letters page in a magazine, yes?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 22:25:54 GMT
Let me be clear:
The people who, at the very least, have the opening few minutes of TPOTD E1 are American. At least one of them is dead, but I would not want to reveal his name because everyone here could guess who the other people are. (I searched his name with "doctor who" in three search engines and his buddies came up in the first hit each time.) IMHO, these people would destroy the original(s) without a second thought if they were pressured. I don't like that attitude, but I get it.
And like The Evil of the Daleks Mississippi betamax recording, it was the person who had the tape has moved house, divorced, gone into an asylum. Same here; now one of this Power Group is now dead and the remaining members would destroy the evidence. You didn't mention this before.
Who cares, frankly.
|
|
|
Post by Robert Lia on Jun 14, 2018 22:33:41 GMT
Speaking as an American fan who was active and aware of things in the 1980's and had contact with older fans at the time can I state for the record we never herd of a Mississippi recording of any Patrick Troughton or William Hartnell story's. Betamax came to the Untied States as a video format in 1975. Unless the person who owned the machine was in the United States Military and say got an embassy posting to Nigeria in that time frame and had the NTSC turner re tuned so that it could record Nigerian PAL or SECAM format there is no chance of any of these recordings existing in the USA.
Now keep in mind a Betamax was very expensive in 1975 and very bulky so if this option did happen it would have been a Military Attache of a Senior Consular Officer assigned to the Embassy Staff. I sincerely doubt it was a member of the US Marine Guard who would have had a video recorder shipped to the US Embassy as part of his back out
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 22:35:07 GMT
When I took ultra-powerful drugs after surgery, I got nightmares of these people destroying their clips in front of my eyes. I never want them again.
Sums it all up. Sod this for a waste of time.
|
|
|
Post by lousingh on Jun 14, 2018 22:39:01 GMT
Let me be clear:
The people who, at the very least, have the opening few minutes of TPOTD E1 are American. At least one of them is dead, but I would not want to reveal his name because everyone here could guess who the other people are. (I searched his name with "doctor who" in three search engines and his buddies came up in the first hit each time.) IMHO, these people would destroy the original(s) without a second thought if they were pressured. I don't like that attitude, but I get it.And like The Evil of the Daleks Mississippi betamax recording, it was the person who had the tape has moved house, divorced, gone into an asylum. Same here; now one of this Power Group is now dead and the remaining members would destroy the evidence. You didn't mention this before. Who cares, frankly. Enough. I am not bothering anymore on this. I am tired of defending myself. I will take a break from these issues in the forum unless I can come up with something to help others searching for these films. I only revealed this here because I thought people should know that there are probably more prints out there than any of us think. I actually own the most dismissed rumour and defend it and explain it ad nauseum. I thought people would like to know that some rumours don't come from nowhere and feel a bit better knowing that they know of someone directly who can confirm the existence of missing material. If you don't want to feel better, that's your affair.
|
|
|
Post by simonashby on Jun 14, 2018 22:50:37 GMT
Let me be clear:
The people who, at the very least, have the opening few minutes of TPOTD E1 are American. At least one of them is dead, but I would not want to reveal his name because everyone here could guess who the other people are. (I searched his name with "doctor who" in three search engines and his buddies came up in the first hit each time.) IMHO, these people would destroy the original(s) without a second thought if they were pressured. I don't like that attitude, but I get it.And like The Evil of the Daleks Mississippi betamax recording, it was the person who had the tape has moved house, divorced, gone into an asylum. Same here; now one of this Power Group is now dead and the remaining members would destroy the evidence. You didn't mention this before. Who cares, frankly. Enough. I am not bothering anymore on this. I am tired of defending myself. I will take a break from these issues in the forum unless I can come up with something to help others searching for these films. I only revealed this here because I thought people should know that there are probably more prints out there than any of us think. I actually own the most dismissed rumour and defend it and explain it ad nauseum. I thought people would like to know that some rumours don't come from nowhere and feel a bit better knowing that they know of someone directly who can confirm the existence of missing material. If you don't want to feel better, that's your affair. Discussing something like this publicly is always going to cause controversy. For many it is an emotive topic, probably too much so. If there's a need to keep certain details secret, or at least to only those that need to know, then that's fine. Sometimes it can be hard to explain certain things without giving something away. I believe you said that you've passed on a lot of info to Paul V - I think that's probably a very wise move.
|
|
|
Post by Robert Lia on Jun 14, 2018 23:27:26 GMT
Well it is technically possible as I stated above you could have some one assigned to the United States Department of State Diplomatic Corps who was assigned in England in the early 1960's who saw Dr. Who during his tour off duty. He may later have been assigned to the US Embassy's in say Australia, Singapore or Nigeria and purchased an NTSC Betamax and had it shipped to the US Embassy in Nigeria and been able to record the shows broadcast there in 1976. Yes I would put the odds at slim to none but it is technically possible. The US ran an English language television service in West Germany in the 1970's and 80's and would re do the tuners of PAL TV's for UK Military personnel so they could watch AFRTS.
|
|
|
Post by Marty Schultz on Jun 15, 2018 0:43:53 GMT
Whilst I know nothing of the US rumours. It's often been RUMOURED that Power exists in Australia. Several people have implied it to me over the years. 16mm of at least 2 episodes. Whilst I haven't ever been told explicitly who has it.. I've inferred from several conversations that it's a non-Who collector I've heard of who has other missing stuff as well. I sincerely doubt that if the RUMOURS are true that we'll see it from them. It's sad that film collectors + researchers can't even be honest and open in private messages amongst themselves in fear of being quoted online etc... and causing the films to NEVER surface.
|
|
|
Post by Ed Brown on Jul 17, 2018 5:56:56 GMT
It's often been RUMOURED that Power exists in Australia. Several people have implied it to me over the years. 16mm of at least 2 episodes. Whilst I haven't ever been told explicitly who has it.. I've inferred from several conversations that it's a non-Who collector I've heard of who has other missing stuff as well. I was very surprised to learn that a non-Who film collector in the UK was not even aware that the BBC were looking for missing episodes of Who, and seemed to genuinely not be aware that the BBC had not retained all of the episodes. He had worked for ITV, and his work in the industry was the reason for his interest in collecting film prints, as I understand it. So he had no BBC background. But even so, it was a bit of a staggering thing to learn that a film collector in the UK had so little knowledge of the BBC's quest to find old recordings, something which gets tv and newspaper coverage in the UK from time to time. Ultimately, the two episodes of Who that he had - from 'Galaxy 4' and 'Underwater Menace' - finally saw the light of day. But only by chance. I found it an eye-opener that someone with an interest in film, and who actually lived in the UK, just had no idea of the significance of what he had. Perhaps this was in part because he only had odd episodes, not a full serial. Why would it therefore be surprising that film collectors in other countries, with no access to news stories circulated in the UK, should be entirely ignorant of the fact that certain episodes of Who are missing from the BBC archive.
|
|
|
Post by Ed Brown on Jul 17, 2018 6:15:04 GMT
Phil has stated in interviews that he will only return completed stories, or episodes that will complete a story, so that limits this if he has found anything, except the expect the unexpected at any time. We know he found cans when he dug up the desert, although he has not stated what or the condition of the film inside. Also that container load that came into the country a few years ago, a lot could be local programmes, but we have only had a few cans out of that declared so far. It would be a lot of restoration on any large amount of programmes, so it would take a few years. Considering where he’s been looking he’s probably more likely to find complete serials - as Enemy and Web (almost) showed and Snowmen/Wheel might. If this shows anything, it shows that he is happy to release incomplete serials, since Web was incomplete and yet he still released it. Perhaps he would see no point in releasing material if all he had was a lone episode, and thought it might be a lead to others. The BBC would probably encourage such an attitude: having only one episode found is just a nuisance to them, since they can't release it, and yet will be pestered to. A complete serial (or a nearly-complete serial, which they can complete by a recon or animation for just one stray episode) is quite a different proposition to finding, say, one solo episode of 'Fury from the Deep'. I'd expect the Beeb to be begging him not to say anything, unless he can turn over to them enough material to enable them to release commercially.
|
|
|
Post by Robert Lia on Jul 17, 2018 20:53:50 GMT
If Phil were found to be sitting on episode 5 of "Revenge of the Garggleblasters" and did not return it the fan response to him would be nasty. If I was him and I had found a few orphan episode's I return them and let the BBC decide how to distribute it or take the heat for not distributing it
|
|
|
Post by Jaspal Cheema on Jul 17, 2018 21:30:48 GMT
If Phil were found to be sitting on episode 5 of "Revenge of the Garggleblasters" and did not return it the fan response to him would be nasty. If I was him and I had found a few orphan episode's I return them and let the BBC decide how to distribute it or take the heat for not distributing it Judging by the eventual fate of UM3 and Airlock, wouldn't the clearance issues of orphan episodes make it prohibitive to release them? An entire serial would probably be as prohibitive as a single episodes so this might determine whether the BBC would want to release a single episode over an entire serial.And also remember an orphan episode requires an awful lot of supporting extras which might also make it's release non-viable.It would therefore be more profitable for the BBC to wait for PM to give them a complete serial/serials.
|
|
|
Post by Jaspal Cheema on Jul 17, 2018 21:31:48 GMT
If Phil were found to be sitting on episode 5 of "Revenge of the Garggleblasters" and did not return it the fan response to him would be nasty. If I was him and I had found a few orphan episode's I return them and let the BBC decide how to distribute it or take the heat for not distributing it Judging by the eventual fate of UM3 and Airlock, wouldn't the clearance issues of orphan episodes make it prohibitive to release them? An entire serial would probably be as prohibitive as a single episodes so this might determine whether the BBC would want to release a single episode over an entire serial.And also remember an orphan episode requires an awful lot of supporting extras which might also make it's release non-viable.It would therefore be more profitable for the BBC to wait for PM to give them a complete serial/serials. Sorry, UM2.
|
|
|
Post by Robert Lia on Jul 17, 2018 21:55:47 GMT
Well considering how animations are now alive and kicking (apparently) again the more we get back the less they have to animate
|
|
|
Post by Ed Brown on Jul 25, 2018 9:45:02 GMT
If Phil were found to be sitting on episode 5 of "Revenge of the Garggleblasters" and did not return it the fan response to him would be nasty. If I was him and I had found a few orphan episode's I return them and let the BBC decide how to distribute it or take the heat for not distributing it But I think we need to make a realistic appraisal of what the attitude of BBC Worldwide is likely to be, in the situation I outlined, bearing in mind that they are a commercial organisation, and so will not release material if it is unlikely to show a profit. Animation is expensive, and we can't reasonably expect that a DVD release would return even a small profit to them if they have to animate 5 episodes, in order to release one recovered filmed episode to DVD. But if, on the other hand, they had 5 recovered episodes and so only had to animate one episode to complete a serial, that will cost them only one-fifth of what animating 5 episodes would cost: then the prospect of the project returning a profit seems much more likely. To look at it from their point of view, do Worldwide really want to encourage Phil to turn over some random lone episode to the BBC? As soon as it passes into the hands of BBC Archives, a number of BBC staff are going to be aware of that and the news is then likely to quickly leak out. Whereas it won't leak out if that film print stays in Phil's custody. So my expectation is that is an understanding that the Beeb have already reached with him. Realistically, we are kidding ourselves if we expect that the next release is going to be some solo episode. The costs are too great to make that sort of release economically viable. Our best hope is that if he finds a lone episode it's from a partially complete serial: there's a big difference between finding one episode of 'Marco Polo' and finding one episode of 'Reign of Terror', since that is the diff between having to meet the cost of animating 6 episodes and having to animate none (since that cost has already been met in the case of the latter).
|
|