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Post by John Wall on May 22, 2018 22:24:37 GMT
What physical evidence do you imagine there would be..? Something like this is bound to be based on anecdotal evidence, not physical proof. A diary entry from the time is a good form of evidence that these films were made. People kept diaries back then, as well as school records of events of the day. Also documentation that these films were offically signed out of the television storage facility to be used at the school. A diary isn’t actually that far fetched as New Zealand is a Commonwealth country with a strong UK heritage. At one time (virtually) every British school had a diary/log and many survive, either stiored at the school or, more likely, in a local archive. What was recorded varied depending upon the enthusiasm of whoever was charged with the task but it’s possible that an event being cancelled and films being shown might be noted. In terms of paperwork for prints, forget it - any potential showing was completely unauthorised and would not have been documented.
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Post by Jon Preddle on May 23, 2018 20:50:50 GMT
The school sports days did happen, as there are several documentary sources that show it took place, such as the school diaries. There is memorial evidence that films were shown. But it's what was shown that's in doubt - was it The Macra Terror or something else? (Was the 'something else' a film with giant crabs in it? There are plenty of B Movies that fit that description.)
Some think this whole thing is delusional (some say the same about FOI requests) but there is sufficient evidence that parts of Neil's story are indeed true.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 21:39:23 GMT
The school sports days did happen, as there are several documentary sources that show it took place, such as the school diaries. There is memorial evidence that films were shown. But it's what was shown that's in doubt - was it The Macra Terror or something else? (Was the 'something else' a film with giant crabs in it? There are plenty of B Movies that fit that description.) Some think this whole thing is delusional (some say the same about FOI requests) but there is sufficient evidence that parts of Neil's story are indeed true. What sufficient evidence and for which parts of Neil's story, Jon?
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Post by John Wall on May 23, 2018 21:59:25 GMT
The school sports days did happen, as there are several documentary sources that show it took place, such as the school diaries. There is memorial evidence that films were shown. But it's what was shown that's in doubt - was it The Macra Terror or something else? (Was the 'something else' a film with giant crabs in it? There are plenty of B Movies that fit that description.) Some think this whole thing is delusional (some say the same about FOI requests) but there is sufficient evidence that parts of Neil's story are indeed true. There are school diaries that survive, thanks:-)
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Post by John Wall on May 23, 2018 22:09:48 GMT
The school sports days did happen, as there are several documentary sources that show it took place, such as the school diaries. There is memorial evidence that films were shown. But it's what was shown that's in doubt - was it The Macra Terror or something else? (Was the 'something else' a film with giant crabs in it? There are plenty of B Movies that fit that description.) Some think this whole thing is delusional (some say the same about FOI requests) but there is sufficient evidence that parts of Neil's story are indeed true. One aspect that’s puzzling is why show only two episodes of a six part story? Thinking it through.... In cinemas you have two projectors so that you can change reels without an interruption. However, in a school situation you’re almost certainly going to have only one projector so there’ll be a break when one reel finishes and the next has to be loaded. Are there candidates for appropriate b&w “creature features” that would fit on two (large) 16mm reels?
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Post by Luke Sherlaw on May 24, 2018 1:23:44 GMT
Thinking it through.... In cinemas you have two projectors so that you can change reels without an interruption. However, in a school situation you’re almost certainly going to have only one projector so there’ll be a break when one reel finishes and the next has to be loaded. Are there candidates for appropriate b&w “creature features” that would fit on two (large) 16mm reels? Macra is only four parts long. Maybe it was a "let me know if you like the first half, then i'll slip you the other two episodes if you do" kind of ordeal. After all, if the headteacher did have an inside guy at the NZBC, he'd probably want to hand out as few films as possible to keep visual disturbances to a minimum. Just my thoughts on the idea.
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Post by Luke Sherlaw on May 24, 2018 1:35:56 GMT
"The misinformation effect happens when a person's recall of episodic memories becomes less accurate because of post-event information." These memories of the School showings of Macra and Power, and the Mississippi Evil broadcast, as well as Ben's aforementioned memory of cine-projected Dalek images; we are talking a good number of years ago. Much time has passed since, and the person making these sincere claims will have seen x-number of hours of post-event images. Given this, and coupled with the fact of how unreliable childhood memories can be, can we really accept word for word these testimonies, no matter the persons sincerity? Going a bit off-topic here but: yes, her work is very fascinating for sure. A lot of her experiments do highlight how malleable our memories are. She's also shown how rubbish as eye-witnesses we are too. Everything we see after witnessing a crime affects our memory. She also showed how leading questions can change our memory too. She did an experiment where she showed a load of people footage of a moving car crashing into a stationary car, and then seperated members of the audience into different groups and gave them all a questionnaires with a question asking them to estimate the speed of the moving car. The only thing that changed between groups was the adjective used to describe the collision: e.g. "Estimate the speed at which the car was travelling when it bumped into the other car", whilst another group would have "Estimate the speed at which the car was travelling when it smashed into the other car". More forceful and exaggerated adjectives almost always resulted in a higher speed estimate, sometimes even a difference of 20mph between groups! Our memory is very subject to interference. Although the source is a reputable gentleman and his friends, i'd still have trouble believing anything based off of 44yr old memory.
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Post by Jon Preddle on May 24, 2018 4:14:28 GMT
One aspect that’s puzzling is why show only two episodes of a six part story? Thinking it through.... In cinemas you have two projectors so that you can change reels without an interruption. However, in a school situation you’re almost certainly going to have only one projector so there’ll be a break when one reel finishes and the next has to be loaded.Are there candidates for appropriate b&w “creature features” that would fit on two (large) 16mm reels? Neil's recollection is that they saw two short films first (one about speed boats, the other was Japanese ice sculptures), followed by at least two episodes of what he thinks was The Macra Terror; so there was certainly several reel changes during the screening (which was in a make-shift 'theatre' set up in a corridor rather than a proper cinema or school hall). They only saw part of the Who story because the buses came to collect everyone part way through the showing.
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Post by John Wall on May 24, 2018 9:32:05 GMT
Thinking it through.... In cinemas you have two projectors so that you can change reels without an interruption. However, in a school situation you’re almost certainly going to have only one projector so there’ll be a break when one reel finishes and the next has to be loaded. Are there candidates for appropriate b&w “creature features” that would fit on two (large) 16mm reels? Macra is only four parts long. Maybe it was a "let me know if you like the first half, then i'll slip you the other two episodes if you do" kind of ordeal. After all, if the headteacher did have an inside guy at the NZBC, he'd probably want to hand out as few films as possible to keep visual disturbances to a minimum. Just my thoughts on the idea. Oops!
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Post by John Wall on May 24, 2018 9:33:18 GMT
One aspect that’s puzzling is why show only two episodes of a six part story? Thinking it through.... In cinemas you have two projectors so that you can change reels without an interruption. However, in a school situation you’re almost certainly going to have only one projector so there’ll be a break when one reel finishes and the next has to be loaded.Are there candidates for appropriate b&w “creature features” that would fit on two (large) 16mm reels? Neil's recollection is that they saw two short films first (one about speed boats, the other was Japanese ice sculptures), followed by at least two episodes of what he thinks was The Macra Terror; so there was certainly several reel changes during the screening (which was in a make-shift 'theatre' set up in a corridor rather than a proper cinema or school hall). They only saw part of the Who story because the buses came to collect everyone part way through the showing. Any chance of identifying the shorts?
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Post by John Wall on May 24, 2018 9:34:43 GMT
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Post by Richard Bignell on May 24, 2018 9:55:53 GMT
Any chance of identifying the shorts? What relevance would that have?
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on May 24, 2018 10:30:17 GMT
Any chance of identifying the shorts? What relevance would that have? I would say to help stir memories. If either the shorts are still around, getting some clips and still frames and playing them might illicit ... “oh wait! I do remember that!”
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 11:08:55 GMT
Thinking it through.... In cinemas you have two projectors so that you can change reels without an interruption. However, in a school situation you’re almost certainly going to have only one projector so there’ll be a break when one reel finishes and the next has to be loaded. Are there candidates for appropriate b&w “creature features” that would fit on two (large) 16mm reels? Macra is only four parts long. Maybe it was a "let me know if you like the first half, then i'll slip you the other two episodes if you do" kind of ordeal. After all, if the headteacher did have an inside guy at the NZBC, he'd probably want to hand out as few films as possible to keep visual disturbances to a minimum. Just my thoughts on the idea. I don't buy this 'insider' and 'slipping films out just in case sports day gets cancelled' nonsense. This is the real world, not the world of The X-Files. There's no evidence for this and it's also not fair implicating people we don't even know in underhanded dealings. Bit of a smear on their character methinks. In the case of the Evil home recording, there was firm evidence, as witnessed by 3 people. All we have for Macra Terror school showing is childhood memories as evidence, and childhood memories are unreliable at best. Speaking of ill-remembered crabs, I recall in the West Midlands, 1970s, seeing the first half of 'Ebirah - Terror of the Deep!' and then being annoyed at having to be whisked off for the weekly shop with Mum. When we got back, my brother tortured me with his account of the great battles between Godzilla and Ebirah... Except that a search today online through The Times TV listings reveals that the film was only broadcast in the Midlands after 4pm (twice). But I SWEAR it was a morning slot, rudely interrupted by a town trip. You can't tell me otherwise, Times Online. The point is, those guys could have seen Macra Terror on TV, and are incorrectly recalling today they were seeing it at school - and, yes, despite one of them saying they'd NOT seen it on TV. Childhood memories...
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Post by John Wall on May 24, 2018 11:45:25 GMT
What relevance would that have? I would say to help stir memories. If either the shorts are still around, getting some clips and still frames and playing them might illicit ... “oh wait! I do remember that!” To try and establish more, or less, credibility in the story.
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